Law DeSantis promises to control Disney

[Mr Holmes]

It's not that Disney's special status was taken away in Florida. If the government of Florida wants to do that, fine. It's more that it was a clear and direct reaction to, and retaliation against, Disney taking a political stance that is the problem.

The government is within its rights to give and take away special privileges to corporate entities, like they've done with Disney. That, in itself, isn't worrying. If they looked at what they'd done with Disney and said "Yeah, I don't think you actually deserve that deal" based on the merits of the deal alone that's fine - that's an assessment of the situation on its merit. That's not what they did though. They saw Disney expressing political pushback against something they did and said "Oh, you want to talk back to us? Then yoink - no special privileges for you." Again, it's not that they took the privileges away - it's that they took them away because they didn't like the politics of the corporation. That's a dangerous thing for governments to do, especially when the corporation is pushing fairly mainstream stuff.

Good post, but I disagree with this point. I don't see why they should be able to shit all over the values of the people in the surrounding area and have an expectation to keep their sweet heart deal.

 

[Fake Doctor]

Good post, but I disagree with this point. I don't see why they should be able to shit all over the values of the people in the surrounding area and have an exception to keep their sweet heart deal.

Eh, disagreement and dialogue is important.

My problem is, what kind of precedent does this set? Let's say, down the road, Daily Wire gets huge. It is lured to set up headquarters in a state with a conservative government with some kind of sweet deal. A few years down the road a non-conservative government comes into power and Matt Walsh makes "What is a woman 2" or something - and the government decides it's time to yoink that deal away. Not because the deal is unfair, but because they don't like the politics of it.

And if we then say "Well, DW is huge - they can afford it. Not a big deal" we fall into precisely the mindset that backs "tax the rich" - that we figure that whether it's right to do or not, it doesn't matter because the pain can be borne by the target. Is it right to target corporations in this way or is it wrong? And not just Disney, because it won't just be Disney.

This may seem like a reasonable political backlash - I disagree, but I can see it interpreted this way - but I see this type of move potentially opening a floodgate, and those waters are going to wash away the people you disagree with and agree with. Right from the Disneys and the Daily Wires down to the Masterwork Cake Shops and the weird LGBTQ cupcake shop down the street - if political retaliation against specific corporations becomes the norm, that's a bad spot for everyone to be in.

The slippery slope is real. If you crack the door open for certain type of behaviour, someone else is waiting to kick that door in. American politicians, special interest groups, activists, etc, are looking at this and thinking "Well damn - if Desantis is going to slam companies, individually, for political disagreements, why can't we?" And you might say "But this was just taking away a special deal that just Disney had" - but it's that cracked door on the topic of "targeting specific companies for political disagreements with government ideology." That door isn't going to stay just cracked, and it will be used to justify worse and worse behaviour.

You might also say "But the left does this too" - and, honestly, maybe they do. I don't know. What I do know is that if they are, and the right joins in, that becomes a race to the bottom. Then it's just a fistfight and it's not about principle any more, it's about winning against the baddies. That's an ugly, ugly political spot to be in.

Truth be told, I don't have time to keep posting like this. This troubles me though. Will keep an eye on it. I'd ask everyone who is all for it to assess it seriously with the metaphor of the loaded gun. Desantis just loaded a gun and fired it at a corporation for a political disagreement. Do you want those who disagree with you to pick up that gun in the future? If no, then you might agree with Desantis's politics here, but seriously consider whether his method is one you want to support.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Not a trump supporter, but can’t wait til they face off and Desantis has to wear lifts to even get close to an eye to eye with don.

 

[Jack V Savage]

This really such an amusing thread. Watching a bunch of leftists lose their minds because a multi-billion dollar company loses some of its self governing privileges and then call conservative posters hacks for acknowledging the vast majority of companies can't self-govern. In fact I've never heard of a company having these type of privileges before this incident. No one should be surprised a conservative governor appointed like minded people to the board to oversee this. That's how it works. Democrat governors don't go around appointing people they disagree with as well.

There are more than 1,800 special districts in Florida. If you have a principled, as opposed to one-off hackish, objection to them, why is there no outcry about that? Very, very obviously, this is not about a principled objection to special districts. It's just trying to punish a company for disagreeing with the governor. I'm also old enough to remember when Republicans were pretending to be supporters of freedom of speech.

 

[Sano]

It's not that Disney's special status was taken away in Florida. If the government of Florida wants to do that, fine. It's more that it was a clear and direct reaction to, and retaliation against, Disney taking a political stance that is the problem.

The government is within its rights to give and take away special privileges to corporate entities, like they've done with Disney. That, in itself, isn't worrying. If they looked at what they'd done with Disney and said "Yeah, I don't think you actually deserve that deal" based on the merits of the deal alone that's fine - that's an assessment of the situation on its merit. That's not what they did though. They saw Disney expressing political pushback against something they did and said "Oh, you want to talk back to us? Then yoink - no special privileges for you." Again, it's not that they took the privileges away - it's that they took them away because they didn't like the politics of the corporation. That's a dangerous thing for governments to do, especially when the corporation is pushing fairly mainstream stuff.

I've used this metaphor before, but Desantis just loaded a gun and fired it at a political enemy. Sooner or later he is going to move on and leave that loaded gun on the table. I don't want any gun that I don't want people I don't like to have left on the table, and that's precisely what is being done here. If this becomes a political norm, expect that gun to be fired back at you.

I've criticized Desantis in the past because his methods are getting dangerously close to that "state as enforcer of ideology" line which is damned dangerous. Stuff like this is why I've done so - and if he's as wildly popular as he is in spite of it, that's dangerous for American politics. If he's that popular because of it, it is likely the start of precisely the kind of violent reversing pendulum swing scenario people like me are worried about. Part - just part, but it's a real concern - of why people like me don't like the excesses of the current left is because it will likely lead to an aggressive pushback from the right, and when the right really pushes it pushes hard. I don't want to be alive the next time when a right leaning populace gets organized and says "fuck it" and starts to retaliate wholesale - and the breakdown in dialogue makes that a very real risk.

If this is just pure political animus, a "Yeah, he stuck it to the bad guys - and I don't care how!" anyone here who is in support of that should own up to it. Don't talk to me about free speech principles and whatnot though. I see this and I see a guy pushing for something that I'm not actually against - pushing back about left leaning cultural insanity - in a way that is as worrisome as that cultural insanity. We do not want a state as ideological enforcer.

Edit: I'm also happy to see that Sano recognizes that for all of his many faults, and they are many, Trump is actually less threatening than Desantis on this front. Desantis is a ruthless son of a bitch and seems quite willing to use the government as a hammer in a way that should freak everyone out. I know it's great to see your politics supported in tangible ways, but remember that metaphor of the loaded gun left on the table and use it to assess your own side's activity. You do not want to help politics go down that road.

Great post and hit the nail on the head at the end there. Trump doesn't really have any strong convictions outside of what helps him get elected, Desantis on the other hand. When you look at what he has signed into law and how his religion not only underpins his world view but directs his politics, it's concerning when combined with his authoritarian ways. When he says stuff like this, he's dead serious:

What message is DeSantis sending with religious ‘full armor of God’ rhetoric?
TALLAHASSEE — While visiting a private Christian college in southern Michigan that wields influence in national politics, Gov. Ron DeSantis rephrased a biblical passage to deliver a message to conservatives.

“Put on the full armor of God. Stand firm against the left’s schemes. You will face flaming arrows, but if you have the shield of faith, you will overcome them, and in Florida we walk the line here,” DeSantis told the audience at Hillsdale College in February. “And I can tell you this, I have only begun to fight.”
https://www.tampabay.com/news/flori...ng-with-religious-full-armor-of-god-rhetoric/

 

[panamaican]

It's not that Disney's special status was taken away in Florida. If the government of Florida wants to do that, fine. It's more that it was a clear and direct reaction to, and retaliation against, Disney taking a political stance that is the problem.

The government is within its rights to give and take away special privileges to corporate entities, like they've done with Disney. That, in itself, isn't worrying. If they looked at what they'd done with Disney and said "Yeah, I don't think you actually deserve that deal" based on the merits of the deal alone that's fine - that's an assessment of the situation on its merit. That's not what they did though. They saw Disney expressing political pushback against something they did and said "Oh, you want to talk back to us? Then yoink - no special privileges for you." Again, it's not that they took the privileges away - it's that they took them away because they didn't like the politics of the corporation. That's a dangerous thing for governments to do, especially when the corporation is pushing fairly mainstream stuff.

I've used this metaphor before, but Desantis just loaded a gun and fired it at a political enemy. Sooner or later he is going to move on and leave that loaded gun on the table. I don't want any gun that I don't want people I don't like to have left on the table, and that's precisely what is being done here. If this becomes a political norm, expect that gun to be fired back at you.

I've criticized Desantis in the past because his methods are getting dangerously close to that "state as enforcer of ideology" line which is damned dangerous. Stuff like this is why I've done so - and if he's as wildly popular as he is in spite of it, that's dangerous for American politics. If he's that popular because of it, it is likely the start of precisely the kind of violent reversing pendulum swing scenario people like me are worried about. Part - just part, but it's a real concern - of why people like me don't like the excesses of the current left is because it will likely lead to an aggressive pushback from the right, and when the right really pushes it pushes hard. I don't want to be alive the next time when a right leaning populace gets organized and says "fuck it" and starts to retaliate wholesale - and the breakdown in dialogue makes that a very real risk.

If this is just pure political animus, a "Yeah, he stuck it to the bad guys - and I don't care how!" anyone here who is in support of that should own up to it. Don't talk to me about free speech principles and whatnot though. I see this and I see a guy pushing for something that I'm not actually against - pushing back about left leaning cultural insanity - in a way that is as worrisome as that cultural insanity. We do not want a state as ideological enforcer.

Edit: I'm also happy to see that Sano recognizes that for all of his many faults, and they are many, Trump is actually less threatening than Desantis on this front. Desantis is a ruthless son of a bitch and seems quite willing to use the government as a hammer in a way that should freak everyone out. I know it's great to see your politics supported in tangible ways, but remember that metaphor of the loaded gun left on the table and use it to assess your own side's activity. You do not want to help politics go down that road.

It's overused on the internet but this is a pretty good example of "fascism". It's state level and only affects this one company but you've hit the major highlights of why anyone who supports a free nation should look at this sequence of events with concern.

 

[Dalarna3]

Good luck controlling that mess.

 

[Fake Doctor]

It's overused on the internet but this is a pretty good example of "fascism". It's state level and only affects this one company but you've hit the major highlights of why anyone who supports a free nation should look at this sequence of events with concern.

I'm intentionally not using the word fascism because this is more a step in the direction of fascism than what I think is outright fascism. I also view the word as being horrifically overused on the internet, so I'm wary to not become part of that problem. But, I will say, a system in which this is normal behaviour is either fascism or damned close to it. I'm not going to say it's fascism as a one-off, but it is a fascist-like move, and people had best be wary of even dabbling in such areas.

Desantis isn't a fascist. At least, if he is one, he hasn't revealed it. But this is a fascist type move. Cross your fingers it isn't part of his playbook to be.

 

[nhbbear]

Disney and some other Uber large companies are in such a weird quasi regulated status where they make more than most continues yet somehow don’t pay their taxes and special privileges. Desantis is just the right level of crazy to reign all of this in.

Dear god, I am going to be voting for my cat again for potus because neither side will present anything worth voting for.

 

[Last Falconry]

this guy is such an amateur. absolutely no juice. he'll be phone banking for Trump within 8 months

 

[Crawler89]

Lord Farquaad of Florida shall not be criticized.

haha now i can not unsee it

 

[panamaican]

I'm intentionally not using the word fascism because this is more a step in the direction of fascism than what I think is outright fascism. I also view the word as being horrifically overused on the internet, so I'm wary to not become part of that problem. But, I will say, a system in which this is normal behaviour is either fascism or damned close to it. I'm not going to say it's fascism as a one-off, but it is a fascist-like move, and people had best be wary of even dabbling in such areas.

Desantis isn't a fascist. At least, if he is one, he hasn't revealed it. But this is a fascist type move. Cross your fingers it isn't part of his playbook to be.

I can agree with that.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

For the party that supposedly claims to ensure govt has less power, they really want to show their power of govt.

 

[Topguntrophey]

Can't wait to have a President to unite the country by fighting the "left" while wearing the "armor of God."

But would his current supports vote for him if he is running Disney? ???? ? ? ? ?? ??

 

[Andy Capp]

This really such an amusing thread. Watching a bunch of leftists lose their minds because a multi-billion dollar company loses some of its self governing privileges and then call conservative posters hacks for acknowledging the vast majority of companies can't self-govern. In fact I've never heard of a company having these type of privileges before this incident. No one should be surprised a conservative governor appointed like minded people to the board to oversee this. That's how it works. Democrat governors don't go around appointing people they disagree with as well.

So, you're totally fine with a state government retaliating against a business over criticism of the government. Got it.

 

[Seano]

Can't wait to have a President to unite the country by fighting the "left" while wearing the "armor of God."

But would his current supports vote for him if he is running Disney? ???? ? ? ? ?? ??

I mean, our current pres called half the country terrorists and a threat to mankind but yeah, messing with Disney is more than you can take.

 

[Mr Holmes]

So, you're totally fine with a state government retaliating against a business over criticism of the government. Got it.

So you're totally fine with a multi billion dollar company getting special privileges after expressing opposition to its host area's values. Got it.

 

[Andy Capp]

I'm intentionally not using the word fascism because this is more a step in the direction of fascism than what I think is outright fascism. I also view the word as being horrifically overused on the internet, so I'm wary to not become part of that problem. But, I will say, a system in which this is normal behaviour is either fascism or damned close to it. I'm not going to say it's fascism as a one-off, but it is a fascist-like move, and people had best be wary of even dabbling in such areas.

Desantis isn't a fascist. At least, if he is one, he hasn't revealed it. But this is a fascist type move. Cross your fingers it isn't part of his playbook to be.

I'm entirely with you (including the previous post) except that Trump said,

The only reason it didn't register higher on the presumed fascism scale is that it didn't gain the desired traction, IMHO, but he definitely tried, just in a different and more wide-reaching manner. Similarly, he floated the wall idea and a whole host of other things. I'm not sure whether it makes him less dangerous to be throwing shit out there and looking for whatever sticks but when it succeeds it's less obvious than DeSantis's blatant heavy-handedness. I think that makes DeSantis a more make or break/high risk/reward type in as much as if people continue to go along with DeSantis (presuming he keeps that shit up) things will get wild, but he's more likely to break on the rocks of going too far--again, just my opinion--whereas Trump is in for the long haul--they were wailing about "Stop the Steal" in 2015 and he has the persistence of the truly obsessed. He can afford to be because he's got all of conservative talk radio plus Fox News, OANN and others feeding him the flavor of the week.

It's going to get interesting* for the Americans if they show strong support for either of them, frankly.


*interesting in the sense of the aphorism "May you live in interesting times." If they're not equally dangerous they're both more dangerous than the US should be toying with, to me.

 

[curryjunkie]

Great post and hit the nail on the head at the end there. Trump doesn't really have any strong convictions outside of what helps him get elected, Desantis on the other hand. When you look at what he has signed into law and how his religion not only underpins his world view but directs his politics, it's concerning when combined with his authoritarian ways. When he says stuff like this, he's dead serious:

What message is DeSantis sending with religious ‘full armor of God’ rhetoric?
TALLAHASSEE — While visiting a private Christian college in southern Michigan that wields influence in national politics, Gov. Ron DeSantis rephrased a biblical passage to deliver a message to conservatives.

“Put on the full armor of God. Stand firm against the left’s schemes. You will face flaming arrows, but if you have the shield of faith, you will overcome them, and in Florida we walk the line here,” DeSantis told the audience at Hillsdale College in February. “And I can tell you this, I have only begun to fight.”
https://www.tampabay.com/news/flori...ng-with-religious-full-armor-of-god-rhetoric/

It's just the usual shtick to reel in rubes and an attempt to harvest trump's evangelical crowd, he will tone that shit right down when he ain't stumping in a southern state

 

[Topguntrophey]

I mean, our current pres called half the country terrorists and a threat to mankind but yeah, messing with Disney is more than you can take.

So I call out DeSantis for a divisive message about the left and you say that Biden did the same for half the country so is that ok for both or not? The comment DeSantis said was not about Disney, but the other half of the country (perhaps).

I'm sure Disney can take care of themselves without my help.