Dems deal Obama huge defeat on trade. Fast track legislation fails 302-126.

[ShoelessRye]

Aren't all those 45 quotes of support from when she was SOS? We know Pres Obama supports this trade bill - she worked for him as SOS, was doing his bidding as SOS.

 

[emefer]

Aren't all those 45 quotes of support from when she was SOS? We know Pres Obama supports this trade bill - she worked for him as SOS, was doing his bidding as SOS.

And now she's pandering for your vote. If she's elected she will continue right in step with the company.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

This isn't a conspiracy theory. I've sourced several economists who share the same fears and none have written off the jobs lost as correlation. And I'm not proposing an isolationist economy. I'm all for trade, but if the government is negotiating a trade deal it should be for the USA, not GE.

Lost jobs COULD be offset if the US would invest in infrastructure. Those would be meaningful job shifts. But there is no sign of that happening. People are going to go from living wage to needing 2 jobs to get by.

And it is not just about jobs. There is some scary stuff leaked about the TPP. There are also privacy and sovereignty concerns. When you consider how the ACA limped out and the fact that it didn't include a clause to allow negotiations with Pharma, and the fact that it is not what it was billed to be compared to an enormous, complicated bill such as the TPP, its not hard to imagine/ recognize that some things could develop or loopholes capitalized on that hurt American workers and the American economy.



The currency manipulation with China is actually hurting us and is a huge part of our trade deficit.

Every outsourced job doesn't go to China or Mexico. While China may be the obvious Asian destination for outsourced American jobs at the moment, it is not a final answer to the potentiality that other countries will benefit. Globalization has benefited the rest of the world more than it has the US. I would expect this bill to incentivize the less wealthy countries to invest in their infrastructure (from what I've read this is a requirement) and thereby present themselves as a competitive alternative to China.

As soon as Africa gains some sustained stability the Trans Atlantic Africa Partnership will be in works.

It looks to me like this is more likely to take already exported jobs away from China compared to taking away jobs in America.

How much cheaper can foreign labor actually get compared to China and India?

At this point aren't we just undercutting who we outsource too?

The arguments against this just don't jive with me.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

edit

 

[emefer]

Oh.

What is irrational about believing American jobs are going to be shipped overseas due to trade liberalization, given our history of losing jobs overseas to trade liberalization?

What is irrational about believing further trade liberalization will lead to greater income inequality, given the history of greater income inequality secondary to trade liberalization?

What is irrational about thinking the 600+ International Corporations who lobbies and negotiated this bill don't have America's best interests at heart?

What is irrational about not trusting a 29 Chapter Trade Bill negotiated in secret and lobbied by 600 International Corporations when only 5 of those chapters deal with trade, some potentially compromise American sovereignty, healthcare, and privacy?

What is rational about trusting a bill created in secret by politicians and corporations that will affect 40%+ of the global economy forever?

What have you read that thinks these fears are irrational?


edit: And welcome back!

I'm all about this post but some people would rather trust that the company and their puppet politicians care about anything but making us loyal consumers. Must be blinded by the fluorescent lighting at Walmart.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

I'm all about this post but some people would rather trust that the company and their puppet politicians care about anything but making us loyal consumers. Must be blinded by the fluorescent lighting at Walmart.

Totally agree

 

[Anung Un Rama]

I'm all about this post but some people would rather trust that the company and their puppet politicians care about anything but making us loyal consumers. Must be blinded by the fluorescent lighting at Walmart.

Exactly. If this were such a great idea it wouldn't be so secret and it wouldn't be so convoluted.

 

[emefer]

I know this guy has no idea what has talking about but.

 

[second sight]

JVS laid down a beating itt

fluffer

 

[emefer]

fluffer

 

[lock203]

One reason companies would rather outsource to other countries than China is so they can protect their IP.

I had a VP of Caterpiller as a regular customer and we would talk about all the jobs that they had shipped to China. He said the biggest problem they had were the Chinese stealing their technology and they had to start making certain parts back here because of it.

It probably isn't such a big deal to have a lot smaller country to produce the stuff that is important to IP since they would lose more than they would gain by stealing it, where China stands to gain a lot more. I could be completely wrong, just always thought about the conversations I had with the guy when I started hearing more about the new trade agreement.

 

[IGIT]

hiya Anuung Un Rama,

Lol

yes, i agree.

45 times Clinton pushed the trade bill she now opposes

Salutations IGIT,

I disagree with your position but at least you're not a liar.

thanks Anuung!

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

hiya Jack,

That's super slimy, too, which is typical for IGIT (who is playing a Rougeau Brothers gimmick here). There's a difference between supporting a deal in general and supporting a specific deal.

your constant lying is a nasty thing to behold, Jack. its vulgar.

why are you working so hard to parse Mrs. Clinton's position? she has historically supported free trade deals, along with granting fast track authority on those bills. she has votes in the Senate to confirm this, it's not up for debate or your constant obfuscation regarding Mrs. Clinton's many remarks on the TPP.

your blind spot (if it is a blind spot

 

[IGIT]

hi ShoelessRye,

Aren't all those 45 quotes of support from when she was SOS? We know Pres Obama supports this trade bill - she worked for him as SOS, was doing his bidding as SOS.

if that's your argument, then Hillary Clinton has no accomplishments whatsoever as Secretary of State, since she was but a mouthpiece for the POTUS.

i'm not sure Mrs. Clinton would like that perspective very much at all.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

hi emefer and well met,

And now she's pandering for your vote. If she's elected she will continue right in step with the company.

yep.

precisely.

unless you're Jack. in which case the long and chronicled history of Mrs. Clinton's advocacy and crafting of the TPP comes to naught, since she's had a deathbed conversion when she saw the gaping chasm that has opened up on her left.

some people are just naive, i guess, my friend!

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

hello Briar,

That's why we need tariffs.

when you're the planet's 2nd biggest exporter, you probably don't want tariffs

 

[emefer]

Instead of weakening the good ole USA with more Bad trade deals, we should strengthen the USA to deal with the monster that former bad Trade Treaties have created-China.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

I know this guy has no idea what has talking about but.

Boom. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

One reason companies would rather outsource to other countries than China is so they can protect their IP.

I had a VP of Caterpiller as a regular customer and we would talk about all the jobs that they had shipped to China. He said the biggest problem they had were the Chinese stealing their technology and they had to start making certain parts back here because of it.

It probably isn't such a big deal to have a lot smaller country to produce the stuff that is important to IP since they would lose more than they would gain by stealing it, where China stands to gain a lot more. I could be completely wrong, just always thought about the conversations I had with the guy when I started hearing more about the new trade agreement.

You are not wrong, IP is an enormous part of the TPP. This will help multinationals, not the worker, and it will lead to jobs being lost to these new partners and possibly jobs shifted from China/India to the new partners.

 

[Bumble_Bee_Tuna]

So pointing out a dishonest you made is "whining like an ideological baby"? Just want to be clear. I don't have my bitter CTer to English dictionary handy.



You're changing the subject, of course. Legislators have staffs to read bills and get pointed to specific parts they should read generally. You're arguing with something I never said, as usual. I said that Pelosi's statement about the ACA was obviously misrepresented by Republican hacks, and you have blindly accepted that misrepresentation (and then responded with rage not at the people lying to you but at the guy who pointed out that you were being lied to) and dug in and defended it. If you drop the constant anger thing and calmly think about it, you'll see A) the hack misrepresentation of her comments were not plausible and B) if you read the whole text, they're not accurate.



Huh?

http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/



I called you a Republican? Where? Try to understand what people are saying before lashing out angrily at them, friend. You'll learn a lot.

Unfortunately, you're idealism once again prevents your understanding of opposing positions. Representatives rarely if ever read the entire texts of the bills they pass. Then maybe they shouldn't be tasked with legislating thousands of pages of bills if they aren't going to be responsible to read them, instead of their staffers presenting them supposed summaries. Pelosi's quote is not misrepresented. I've listened to the entire quote as well. It is a true reflection of the state of this "democracy" despite your attempts to make this pliable and excusable. The text of the bill is available now. However, when it was being discussed and just at the time of Pelosi's quote, it was not available. That was the point.