Economy Democrats why are you against tariffs but in favor of raising corporate/business tax rate? Explain it to me.

[mkess101]

Tarriffs are designed to be scalpels, not scatter bombs.

Does anyone actually think trade wars are "won"?

Trump playing Russian Roulette with our economy for very little reason. Yes, steps to have a better trade balance with many of these nations is good. This ain't it though.

 

[koa pomaikai]

Progressive tax policy towards corporations. Not just more tax. Don't dumb this shit down.

Smaller businesses pay small tax
Medium sized pay medium tax
Large pay large tax.

Large companies will struggle to pass on the additional taxes to customers as small and medium sized companies in the industry will be biting at the heels with a lower tax rate which encourages more and more competition which is better for the consumer.

If your tax rate goes up 20% as a large company it's going to be harder to just palm that cost off to consumers if small competitors got a tax cut.

Better ideas have a much larger likelihood of beating out well funded ideas.



Tariffs aren't bad per se if they're used correctly. Generally it's something the country does well that they want to keep doing despite another country doing it more economically. There's a whole bunch of reasons, pros and cons.

Tariffs aren't what is going on though. Tariffs are being used to incite trade wars largely against allied democracies because of perceived unfairness in trade deals. Some of those deals Trump made himself.

Now if you're in an allied country like mine (australia) and you're on Trumps tariff hit list you get a few options.

Roll over, look weak and get fucked in the ass knowing that there's another 4 more years of ass fucking ahead.
Or you try to remain diplomatic while instituting your own trade war initiatives. You know they're fucking stupid because they have no real purpose but you can't look like a bitch either.

Most of us are going to look at the sheer scale this trade war and chose the latter.

Trump and Canada tariff 20 industries.
Trump and Euro tariff 20 industries.
Trump and China tariff 20 industries.

Canada has 20 tariffs. Euro has 20 tariffs. China has 20 tariffs. America has 60 tariffs.

Plus we're going after red states. That shit is obvious right? Canada is explicitly doing it as will anyone who America starts a trade war with.

Also it's just straight fucking with the economy. Trade is a good thing. Keeps costs down. We all do it for a reason. There's nobody producing all their own stuff for a reason.


Plus it just really undermines Western soft power during a new cold war.

Western countries are waking up to the reality that Xi is a bit of a cunt especially now Putin has gone mask off.

But instead of capitalizing on the absolutely massive economic power the western democratic alliance wields to INCREASE trade amongst each other at China's expense... We're getting a whole bunch of stupid, pointless infighting.

yay.

Why is it harder to pass the cost to the consumer as a large corporation and why is it easier to pass the cost onto the consumer when it’s a tariff?

I presume both rely on how willing the consumer is to pay for the cost.

I mean if Costco import goods from Mexico, and tariffs hurt their gross profits by making the cost of that food higher, they charge higher prices to maintain the same margins…

Why wouldn’t they do the same if their corporate tax rate goes up? It seems the same in principle.

 

[chardog]

In a nutshell as @Cid says:

EARN MORE, PAY MORE - a surgical Dem policy.

TARIFF EVERYTHING PLUS EARN MORE, PAY LESS - a lunatic Republican policy.

If you instinctively feel you prefer the Republican method BUT aren't a billionaire, you might be brainwashed. It won't help you on any level.

except that tariffs have been around since the beginning of time and been largely ignored by american presidents with the exception of Clinton.

reciprocal tariffs will bring on parity, countries are allowed to bring on tariffs to protect their domestic industries and america can do the same.

 

[method115]

Progressive tax policy towards corporations. Not just more tax. Don't dumb this shit down.

Smaller businesses pay small tax
Medium sized pay medium tax
Large pay large tax.

Large companies will struggle to pass on the additional taxes to customers as small and medium sized companies in the industry will be biting at the heels with a lower tax rate which encourages more and more competition which is better for the consumer.

If your tax rate goes up 20% as a large company it's going to be harder to just palm that cost off to consumers if small competitors got a tax cut.

Better ideas have a much larger likelihood of beating out well funded ideas.



Tariffs aren't bad per se if they're used correctly. Generally it's something the country does well that they want to keep doing despite another country doing it more economically. There's a whole bunch of reasons, pros and cons.

Tariffs aren't what is going on though. Tariffs are being used to incite trade wars largely against allied democracies because of perceived unfairness in trade deals. Some of those deals Trump made himself.

Now if you're in an allied country like mine (australia) and you're on Trumps tariff hit list you get a few options.

Roll over, look weak and get fucked in the ass knowing that there's another 4 more years of ass fucking ahead.
Or you try to remain diplomatic while instituting your own trade war initiatives. You know they're fucking stupid because they have no real purpose but you can't look like a bitch either.

Most of us are going to look at the sheer scale this trade war and chose the latter.

Trump and Canada tariff 20 industries.
Trump and Euro tariff 20 industries.
Trump and China tariff 20 industries.

Canada has 20 tariffs. Euro has 20 tariffs. China has 20 tariffs. America has 60 tariffs.

Plus we're going after red states. That shit is obvious right? Canada is explicitly doing it as will anyone who America starts a trade war with.

Also it's just straight fucking with the economy. Trade is a good thing. Keeps costs down. We all do it for a reason. There's nobody producing all their own stuff for a reason.


Plus it just really undermines Western soft power during a new cold war.

Western countries are waking up to the reality that Xi is a bit of a cunt especially now Putin has gone mask off.

But instead of capitalizing on the absolutely massive economic power the western democratic alliance wields to INCREASE trade amongst each other at China's expense... We're getting a whole bunch of stupid, pointless infighting.

yay.

Great break down I legitimately didn't know the answer.

 

[shunyata]

The funniest part of the maga movement is the “great America” they want to go back to is a time where rich people got taxed to a proper level. That taxation lead to the greatness they wanted. Trickle down economics has been done for 50 years and it has only made the rich richer with zero trickle down. It’s actually the start of the downfall of America tbh.

It’s gonna be funny if they somehow get rid of all the immigrants then realise they will still be poor if not poorer but at least no browns or trans in sports. The republican propaganda machine needs to be studied because it’s fucking amazing. China and Russia should learn from them because they got nothing on this.

They basically tricked people into thinking gutting all government funding is good and that they should have nothing and be happy about because life is good as long as no migrants or trans in sports.

Nailed it.


First, OP is acting like sales taxes and income taxes are the same (they are not).

And second they're avoiding the issue that progressives want a return to post WWII tax policies with a restoration of higher income taxes on the highest incomes. No tax increases for the middle class or small businesses.

Trump wants to increase taxes on middle income and lower income households to give tax breaks to the highest earners.

 

[Prologue]

This can work if targeted at specific industries, but these tariffs are across the board and if the government keeps flip flopping on them no one will invest in US productive capacity.

Bingo.

I wouldn't be surprised if much of the flip-flopping is a way for Trump to have his cake and eat it too. Since the uncertainity at the time seems to be enough to drive business away.

Problem is that uncertainity is hurting confidence in the market, so everyone, even the US, gets hurt.

 

[Satsui Ryu]

Progressive tax policy towards corporations. Not just more tax. Don't dumb this shit down.

Smaller businesses pay small tax
Medium sized pay medium tax
Large pay large tax.

Large companies will struggle to pass on the additional taxes to customers as small and medium sized companies in the industry will be biting at the heels with a lower tax rate which encourages more and more competition which is better for the consumer.

If your tax rate goes up 20% as a large company it's going to be harder to just palm that cost off to consumers if small competitors got a tax cut.

Better ideas have a much larger likelihood of beating out well funded ideas.



Tariffs aren't bad per se if they're used correctly. Generally it's something the country does well that they want to keep doing despite another country doing it more economically. There's a whole bunch of reasons, pros and cons.

Tariffs aren't what is going on though. Tariffs are being used to incite trade wars largely against allied democracies because of perceived unfairness in trade deals. Some of those deals Trump made himself.

Now if you're in an allied country like mine (australia) and you're on Trumps tariff hit list you get a few options.

Roll over, look weak and get fucked in the ass knowing that there's another 4 more years of ass fucking ahead.
Or you try to remain diplomatic while instituting your own trade war initiatives. You know they're fucking stupid because they have no real purpose but you can't look like a bitch either.

Most of us are going to look at the sheer scale this trade war and chose the latter.

Trump and Canada tariff 20 industries.
Trump and Euro tariff 20 industries.
Trump and China tariff 20 industries.

Canada has 20 tariffs. Euro has 20 tariffs. China has 20 tariffs. America has 60 tariffs.

Plus we're going after red states. That shit is obvious right? Canada is explicitly doing it as will anyone who America starts a trade war with.

Also it's just straight fucking with the economy. Trade is a good thing. Keeps costs down. We all do it for a reason. There's nobody producing all their own stuff for a reason.


Plus it just really undermines Western soft power during a new cold war.

Western countries are waking up to the reality that Xi is a bit of a cunt especially now Putin has gone mask off.

But instead of capitalizing on the absolutely massive economic power the western democratic alliance wields to INCREASE trade amongst each other at China's expense... We're getting a whole bunch of stupid, pointless infighting.

yay.

To add to this, some of the reasons for the tariffs are regarding immigration and the drug trade. Basically do what we want or we are going to collapse your economy. It is borderline extortion and this is being done to allies.

 

[Deaths Head]

except that tariffs have been around since the beginning of time and been largely ignored by american presidents with the exception of Clinton.

reciprocal tariffs will bring on parity, countries are allowed to bring on tariffs to protect their domestic industries and america can do the same.

( The trouble with tariffs, to be succinct, is that they raise prices, slow economic growth, cut profits, increase unemployment, worsen inequality, diminish productivity and increase global tensions. Other than that, they're fine )

Are you another Trump parrot ? The reciprocal tariffs require us to inflict harm on American consumers and American businesses that rely on imported goods just because other countries are willing to inflict harms on their consumers and businesses in order to protect local industries. That’s a little like jumping off a bridge just because other kids are doing it.

This is definitely Trump logic at its best . Tarriffs have been largely avoided because they were never good to begin with dont you guys have the capacity to even think why the overwhelming majority of the financial experts are against this ? Lol

 

[chardog]

( The trouble with tariffs, to be succinct, is that they raise prices, slow economic growth, cut profits, increase unemployment, worsen inequality, diminish productivity and increase global tensions. Other than that, they're fine )

Are you another Trump parrot ? The reciprocal tariffs require us to inflict harm on American consumers and American businesses that rely on imported goods just because other countries are willing to inflict harms on their consumers and businesses in order to protect local industries. That’s a little like jumping off a bridge just because other kids are doing it.

This is definitely Trump logic at its best . Tarriffs have been largely avoided because they were never good to begin with dont you guys have the capacity to even think why the overwhelming majority of the financial experts are against this ? Lol

NPC be parroting shit, but ok

 

[Darkavius]

except that tariffs have been around since the beginning of time and been largely ignored by american presidents with the exception of Clinton.

reciprocal tariffs will bring on parity, countries are allowed to bring on tariffs to protect their domestic industries and america can do the same.

How can said parity exist if a country is already at a disadvantage economically? For example, China can already make things cheaper and have the educated labor to do so. In order to create this parity you mention wouldn't America need the educated labor and an already established set up to produce all these things China makes cheaply? The problem with the parity idea is that if you are going to do it you would need to go ahead and set up the foundation for it internally before you apply tariffs. Otherwise, you would just be setting yourself up for economic hardship since you are already in the disadvantaged position.

 

[Deaths Head]

NPC be parroting shit, but ok

That’s your response to what I posted ? Why are you even on the thread if you can’t show me anything I said was false ? At least you admit to doing it though I still haven’t seen ONE poster on here the entire time form they’re own reasons why the Tarriffs are good and that’s because they can’t actually give an example they can only repeat what Trump says . Lol

Seriously what’s the purpose dropping the same old same old rhetoric which is not even true ?

 

[Deaths Head]

I know this won’t help the Trumpers ( I’m seriously trying ) . It’s like if I kept punching someone in the face for hours and they finally move or duck out of the way instead of just standing there .

“Virtually all economists think that the impact of the tariffs will be very bad for America and for the world,”

Trump won’t rule out recession, gets tough words from economist

Trump said "there is a period of transition" when asked about a recession in 2025.

www.syracuse.com

 

[Possum Jenkins]

You do know that people PICKED the republicans to gut the government, right? People have different opinions than you.

Gutting the government was an insignificant part of the campaign promises of Republicans. I guess if you look hard enough you'll find a statement about it here or there but it wasn't even close to being major.

Trump ran and won on: kicking all the illegals out, bringing egg prices and "out of control inflation" down, reducing the number of genders from 86 to 2.

 

[avenue94]

Jumps in effective corporate tax rate are usually smaller after deductions and loopholes and since the current corporate tax rate isn't zero.

As far as business shopping around, the US tax rate is lower than most developed countries worth investing in for big companies.

 

[cooks1]

For years, the republican argument against raising tax for businesses and corporations is that they will just raise product prices to cover the cost of the tax.

Democrats call BS on that argument, yet, isn’t this the exact argument on tariffs? That if you tax the imports higher, businesses just sell the product to consumers more.

Wtf is the difference? Am I stupid for not seeing it?

Why are democrats against tariffs but not against raising the corporate tax?

Well....It's very simple....tariffs are regressive, income taxes do not have to be. The wealth gap is a huge issue already. Regressive taxes like tariffs will make it worse.

 

[shinkyoku]

This thread did not really go as threadstarter hoped.

 

[djacobox372]

Because one is a sales tax and the other is a income tax.

Sales taxes are regressive, income taxes are (typically) progressive.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Tariffs are at consumer expense, so it'll only hurt the little man. Taxing those with abundance has no negative effect on anyone making below 7 figures.

 

[koa pomaikai]

Well....It's very simple....tariffs are regressive, income taxes do not have to be. The wealth gap is a huge issue already. Regressive taxes like tariffs will make it worse.

The corporate income tax is also regressive if they can pass the cost onto consumers, because if they can, the wealthy corporation doesn’t actually pay higher taxes, they maintain the same profits and just increase price.

It seems there is an assumption that tariffs can be passed onto consumers but the corporate tax cannot. The argument seems the same though…

If a higher cost of goods price can be passed onto the consumer in order to maintain the same profit margins, why can’t a corporation just pass on an increase in taxes at the end and reverse engineer price to keep the same margins?

If the underlying assumption is that businesses pass increase cost onto consumers and they are able to do so, why does it matter if that cost increase is from an increase tax on COGSs or an increase tax from gross profits?

 

[avenue94]

The corporate income tax is also regressive if they can pass the cost onto consumers, because if they can, the wealthy corporation doesn’t actually pay higher taxes, they maintain the same profits and just increase price.

It seems there is an assumption that tariffs can be passed onto consumers but the corporate tax cannot. The argument seems the same though…

If a higher cost of goods price can be passed onto the consumer in order to maintain the same profit margins, why can’t a corporation just pass on an increase in taxes at the end and reverse engineer price to keep the same margins?

If the underlying assumption is that businesses pass increase cost onto consumers and they are able to do so, why does it matter if that cost increase is from an increase tax on COGSs or an increase tax from gross profits?

There are a lot more ways to avoid corporate tax than tariff. Not to mention the actual increases between the two are very different in scale.

Very few businesses are paying the actual tax rate, most pay much lower.