Elections Democrat 2016 Primary Thread: V2 It's Still Hillary Edition

Who do you want to win?/ Who do you think will win? (Pick one of each)


  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .

Well, that's the implication of a lot of analysis. If you're just being sensitive about the phrasing, whatever.

Surely, you realize that breaking up big banks would provide no benefit to anything, right? Small banks failing can also cause severe problems. And that there are no practical, constitutional ways to even execute the breakup.
 
hi again Jack V Savage,

Well, that's the implication of a lot of analysis. If you're just being sensitive about the phrasing, whatever.

its not "whatever".

i don't discount your take on financial reform, i take your posting on this topic seriously - so words matter.

if you feel that Sanders hasn't adequately addressed hedge funds, unlisted derivatives and other unlisted instruments, then just say so. to say that Senator Sanders, who was a ranking member of the budget committee, "doesn't know what he's talking about", suggests you have a contempt for him that you do not have for Mrs. Clinton.

i hope you don't take that personally, Jack, but thats how i see it.

Surely, you realize that breaking up big banks would provide no benefit to anything, right?

Small banks failing can also cause severe problems.

the Savings and Loan crises was precipitated by the activity (and collapse) of small banks, so yeah, i am aware a contagion can originate in smaller banks too.

i guess i'm with Clinton and Sanders on the continued existence and blossoming of the big banks. we agree to disagree, Jack.

Hillary Clinton said in South Carolina on Saturday that she is willing to split apart big financial institutions should the need arise.

The Democratic primary front-runner told Democrats at a rally in North Charleston that she has the “toughest” proposals for dealing with Wall Street. She says she would “break up the big banks” if necessary and hold financial executives accountable.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...-vows-shes-willing-to-break-up-big-banks.html

Hillary Clinton unveiled a plan that aims to tackle excessive risk-taking in the financial sector and calls for breaking up too-big-to-fail banks.

The proposal, laid out Thursday, would impose a risk fee on financial firms "that are too large and too risky to manage" and require them to reorganize, downsize or break apart, the Democratic presidential hopeful said
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/08/clin...o-fail-banks-as-part-of-wall-street-plan.html

- IGIT
 
its not "whatever".

It is. The way I see it, you don't disagree with my point, but you're hypersensitive about any criticism of Sanders, even coming from someone who mostly likes him.

if you feel that Sanders hasn't adequately addressed hedge funds, unlisted derivatives and other unlisted instruments, then just say so. to say that Senator Sanders, who was a ranking member of the budget committee, "doesn't know what he's talking about", suggests you have a contempt for him that you do not have for Mrs. Clinton.

No, it suggests that I believe that he doesn't know what he's talking about on that subject. And everyone has blind spots. A president is expected to speak intelligently on an impossible variety of subjects, and they all fail at times. Sanders' comments on finance generally suggest that it's not something he bothered to try to understand. Sorry, but that's how I see it. And, again, while ideologically, he's closer to me than Clinton is, I do have more respect for her general policy knowledge. She's much less likely to bluster about a subject she's not up on.

the Savings and Loan crises was precipitated by the activity (and collapse) of small banks, so yeah, i am aware a contagion can originate in smaller banks too.

Thank you. A bank can be both relatively small and too big to fail. Breaking up big banks won't protect the stability of the system and won't confer any other benefits. And it's not a practical, legal solution. In this case, he's letting anger override reason.

i guess i'm with Clinton and Sanders on the continued existence and blossoming of the big banks. we agree to disagree, Jack.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2015/11/21/hillary-clinton-vows-shes-willing-to-break-up-big-banks.html

Yeah, so if you actually read that (rather than just the headlines), you see that Clinton has a more nuanced, intelligent approach. A risk fee and higher fines for improper activity vs. "breaking up the big banks" (they agree on taxing some types of activity). Plus, look at Sanders' comments about interest rates on college loans compared to auto or home loans (apparently showing no understanding of collateral). Or look at the pandering, ignorant claim that "the business model of Wall Street is fraud."
 
hi Jack,

It is. The way I see it, you don't disagree with my point, but you're hypersensitive about any criticism of Sanders, even coming from someone who mostly likes him.

i'm not really hypersensitive about Mr. Sanders. i think a poster in this thread or another nonsensically stated that Bernie has yellow corn teeth, lol.

i didn't reply to that one, because it seemed goofy.

i reply (and read) your posts because i feel they generally have a sense of substance to them, even when i disagree. to my own way of seeing things, Clinton's stance on financial reform mirrors Bernie's, though at this point her positions seem a bit more fleshed out (with an assist from Frank, who i'm sure you're aware is advising her).

No, it suggests that I believe that he doesn't know what he's talking about on that subject.

And everyone has blind spots. A president is expected to speak intelligently on an impossible variety of subjects, and they all fail at times. Sanders' comments on finance generally suggest that it's not something he bothered to try to understand. Sorry, but that's how I see it. And, again, while ideologically, he's closer to me than Clinton is, I do have more respect for her general policy knowledge. She's much less likely to bluster about a subject she's not up on.

as you've said before, Hillary has "a towering intellect" (or something to that effect). she's marvelously debate prepped.

i disagree that Sanders "doesn't know what he's talking about", in regards to financial reform - i also believe that, when provided with the same data that Mrs. Clinton has - he has better judgement.

Thank you. A bank can be both relatively small and too big to fail. Breaking up big banks won't protect the stability of the system and won't confer any other benefits. And it's not a practical, legal solution. In this case, he's letting anger override reason.

no problem. we don't see things differently here.

Yeah, so if you actually read that (rather than just the headlines), you see that Clinton has a more nuanced, intelligent approach. A risk fee and higher fines for improper activity vs. "breaking up the big banks" (they agree on taxing some types of activity). Plus, look at Sanders' comments about interest rates on college loans compared to auto or home loans (apparently showing no understanding of collateral). Or look at the pandering, ignorant claim that "the business model of Wall Street is fraud."

i'll read up a bit more on the points you've raised, Jack. my point was only that Mrs. Clinton has spoken a great deal of breaking up the big banks (if i'm not mistaken, the Fed already has a mechanism in place to do so).

regarding the bolded, i think that's a bit of a over generalization by Sanders - but there was quite a bit of fraud in lower Manhattan in the lead up to 2009.

- IGIT
 
i'm not really hypersensitive about Mr. Sanders. i think a poster in this thread or another nonsensically stated that Bernie has yellow corn teeth, lol.

i didn't reply to that one, because it seemed goofy.

Right. But more substantive criticism gets you more sensitive.

i'll read up a bit more on the points you've raised, Jack. my point was only that Mrs. Clinton has spoken a great deal of breaking up the big banks (if i'm not mistaken, the Fed already has a mechanism in place to do so).

regarding the bolded, i think that's a bit of a over generalization by Sanders - but there was quite a bit of fraud in lower Manhattan in the lead up to 2009.

Here's another good bit on the issue (focusing on Democrats generally making this mistake rather than just Sanders):

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/05/sanders-dont-break-up-the-big-banks-000054

And what do we call a gross overgeneralization issued by a politician for the purpose of riling up ignorant voters? Pandering, right? Or demagoguery? Clinton does it, too, but everyone realizes that, while Sanders fans often don't seem to realize when he does it.
 
http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...nton-lead-nearly-vanishes-among-democrats.htm

Wassup ERBODY!!!!!!!

Just wanted to stop by and let everyone know that the unthinkable is happening. our beloved Hillary Clinton is starting to lose ground in Iowa. This is shocking and frankly upsetting I know. But I guess you can't argue with hard data.................:rolleyes:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-even-in-early-races-poll-finds-1452434581

Also they reinforce the fact that Sanders does better against Clinton in hypothetical general election matchups. So a big hard middle finger to anyone who says I cherry pick data. (Cough)Quipling(Cough)

mooninites_by_dangerdalton.png


In Iowa:

  • Clinton leads Trump by eight points among registered voters (48 percent to 40 percent), but Sanders is ahead of him by 13 (51 percent to 38 percent);
  • Cruz tops Clinton by four points (47 percent to 43 percent), but Sanders beats him by five (47 percent to 42 percent);
  • And up Rubio is up by five points over Clinton (47 percent to 42 percent), while he's tied with Sanders (44 percent to 44 percent).
In New Hampshire:

  • Clinton is ahead of Trump by just one point (45 percent to 44 percent), but Sanders tops him by 19 points (56 percent to 37 percent);
  • Cruz beats Clinton by four points (48 percent to 44 percent), but Sanders leads him by another 19 points (55 percent to 36 percent);
  • And Rubio bests Clinton by 12 points (52 percent to 40 percent), while Sanders leads him by nine points (50 percent to 41 percent).

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/poll-neck-neck-2016-races-iowa-new-hampshire-n493361

Okay so this is the part where you guys tell me that none of this info matters and everything still points to Bernie being obliterated by Shillary and I along with others are just picking and choosing the data we want to share. Okay it's your turn......
 
hi theBLAD1,

http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...nton-lead-nearly-vanishes-among-democrats.htm

Wassup ERBODY!!!!!!!

Just wanted to stop by and let everyone know that the unthinkable is happening. our beloved Hillary Clinton is starting to lose ground in Iowa. This is shocking and frankly upsetting I know. But I guess you can't argue with hard data.................:rolleyes:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-even-in-early-races-poll-finds-1452434581

Also they reinforce the fact that Sanders does better against Clinton in hypothetical general election matchups. So a big hard middle finger to anyone who says I cherry pick data. (Cough)Quipling(Cough)

mooninites_by_dangerdalton.png




http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/poll-neck-neck-2016-races-iowa-new-hampshire-n493361

Okay so this is the part where you guys tell me that none of this info matters and everything still points to Bernie being obliterated by Shillary and I along with others are just picking and choosing the data we want to share. Okay it's your turn......

while i think its great that Bernie outpolls his counterparts on the GOP side of the ticket, what matters is whether he can topple Mrs. Clinton.

if he's gaining ground in Iowa, terrific...he's going to need Iowa and NH to really have a chance of surviving super tuesday.

its encouraging to news to hear he's doing well at the moment, and i hope it continues.

- IGIT
 
hi again Jack,

Right. But more substantive criticism gets you more sensitive.

you might be getting me confused with others here. i don't feel especially senstive towards your critique of Sanders, i'm just curious about it.

Here's another good bit on the issue (focusing on Democrats generally making this mistake rather than just Sanders):

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/05/sanders-dont-break-up-the-big-banks-000054

regarding your link, i've read several pieces about the merits (or lack thereof) of breaking up the big banks. my own take on it is that financial reform is going to be made up from a great many moving parts, and breaking up the strongest financial institutions is just one part of it.

my main rationale for doing so is mostly to limit the amazing power they've had over Government regulatory agencies and in particular, the rating agencies and accounting firms (which to me, had a built in conflict of interest - they were unable to execute their duties due to the immense sums of money they were being paid from these goliaths).

And what do we call a gross overgeneralization issued by a politician for the purpose of riling up ignorant voters? Pandering, right? Or demagoguery? Clinton does it, too, but everyone realizes that, while Sanders fans often don't seem to realize when he does it.

i don't see him doing it, to be honest, though i do think he highlights points that are digestable and comprehendable by the general public. there is only so much "wonk" the voting public will absorb, or is interested in grasping.

- IGIT
 
Clinton proposes a new 4 percent tax on the wealthy
90

Hillary Clinton today proposed a 4 percent surtax on the highest-earning Americans, as she seeks to boost taxes for the wealthiest Americans.

The proposal, which she announced in Iowa, would raise an estimated $150 billion over a decade, a Clinton aide said, and comes after the Democratic front-runner said that she would build on the so-called Buffett Rule that seeks to ensure that the middle class doesn't pay a higher tax rate than top earners.

Clinton's Tax Surcharge on Highest Earners Would Hit Top 0.03%
1200x-1.jpg

Hillary Clinton is calling for a 4 percent tax surcharge on Americans making more than $5 million annually, a move that would lead to the highest top U.S. income tax rate in 30 years.

Proposing the 4 percent surcharge, which would apply to just one-fiftieth of 1 percent of Americans, based on 2013 federal data, kicked off an effort by Clinton this week to unveil measures aimed at ensuring the wealthy pay a higher effective tax rate than the middle class. With the surcharge, that small group of the highest earners would pay as much as 43.6 percent in federal income tax on income from wages. A spokesman for Clinton’s leading rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, called it “too little too late."
 


Brown and Black Forum with Clinton and Sanders
 
LOL! She'll have to propose it at least 46 times seeing as she was to be able to conveniently change her mind after promoting the TPP 45 times!

I wonder why she waited until now to unveil this proposal....
From Lead's link:
Clinton’s push comes as Sanders has gathered strength in key early-state polls.


giphy.gif
 
Ramos got Hillary to agree we should no longer use the term "illegals".
 
Biden praises Sanders on income inequality, calls Clinton 'relatively new' to the fight
Vice President Joe Biden offered effusive praise for Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders Monday, lauding Hillary Clinton's chief rival for doing a "heck of a job" on the campaign trail and praising Sanders for offering an authentic voice on income inequality.

And while Biden said Democrats had a slate of "great candidates" running for president, he suggested Clinton was a newcomer to issues like the growing gap between rich and poor.

Pretty odd to not join the race then bump heads with leader in the race.
 
LOL! She'll have to propose it at least 46 times seeing as she was to be able to conveniently change her mind after promoting the TPP 45 times!

Perfect. I didn't think you'd find a way to slip the dishonest talking point about the TPP in. Good show!
 
Biden praises Sanders on income inequality, calls Clinton 'relatively new' to the fight


Pretty odd to not join the race then bump heads with leader in the race.

I feel like Joe Biden really likes Bernie. He has gone on record saying positive things about him in the past and you never know if he might have some undisclosed beef with Hillary. There were running against each other in 2007/08 and who knows what has gone on behind closed doors since then.

Or maybe just really likes Bernie. There is that too.
 


Brown and Black Forum with Clinton and Sanders


HAHAHAHAHA At 1:50:36 when asked about how she is like your "abuela" you can hear people shouting in the background NOT MY ABUELA!!!



Some of y'all don't want to believe me but even among a lot of liberal Democrats, there is a high level of distaste towards Hillary Clinton and her incessant pandering.
 
I saw today on CNN that Sanders is leading the poll.
 
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