Elections Democrat 2016 Primary Thread: V2 It's Still Hillary Edition

[theBLADE1]

For not being progressive she sure has a lot of support from progressive politicians. Why is that?

I think you are also a little frustrated by the chance that she might win the nomination and not Bernie, but dang man common to claim she is close to a Republican is dishonest.

Politicians who stand to see things kept the way they are. These primaries come down to a battle of ideologies. Those who want to see things change for the better and those who want to see things stay the same. This is a different kind of election and endorsements by politicians are not going to matter as much as they did in the past. That goes for Sanders endorsements from politicians as well.

The funny thing is most people can't even identify what Wall Street is currently doing that today is so bad and most people also don't know how investing money works. Let alone how the creation of wealth works. It says a lot when members on this forum who are well educated and work in Finance don't fall for the radical and dishonest lies which is that "wall streets model is fraud". That in itself is a complete cheap shot and dishonest.

It's not dishonest in fact it's 100% truth. Not a single executive who ran the companies that cooked up and cashed in on the phony financial boom, the industry wide scam that involved the mass sale of mismarked, fraudulent mortgage backed securities, has ever been convicted. Companies like AIG, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Morgan Stanley. Most of these firms were directly involved in elaborate fraud and theft. Lehman Brothers hid billions in loans from its investors. Bank of America lied about billions in bonuses. Goldman Sachs failed to tell clients how it put together the born-to-lose toxic mortgage deals it was selling. What's more, many of these companies had corporate chieftains whose actions cost investors billions! From AIG derivatives chief Joe Cassano, who assured investors they would not lose even "one dollar" just months before his unit imploded, to the $263 million in compensation that former Lehman chief Dick "The Gorilla" Fuld conveniently failed to disclose. Yet not one of them has faced time behind bars. And don't even mention Dodd Frank because it didn't go far enough. Commercial banking and securities activities should be separate, as in not to taking place within the same financial institution.

It also is dishonest when people think that a individual people donating from the corporation that employees them somehow means set candidate is 'controlled' by set entity. Hillary standing for Obamacare, equal pay, maternity leave, raising the minimum wage, and criminal justice reform along with reduced college tuition payments are a lot to help the poor, working class, and non-elite rich.

Wrong. She has received millions of dollars to speak at Goldman Sachs not because they like to hear Hillary tell them how she's gonna put a stop to their greedy actions. Anyone who thinks that it's just low-level employees from those companies donating to her campaign are absolutely kidding themselves. She has no plan to expand Obama care to the over 20 million uninsured Americans and has received millions of dollars from giant pharmaceutical companies. That's why she doesn't want Medicare for all.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/10/14/hillary-takes-millions-in-campaign-cash-from-enemies

She has no plans to fix criminal justice.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...rison-Corporations-Stand-With-Hillary-Clinton

It's so easy to paint her as a liar because is one. How is anyone supposed to trust her with every issue that she claims to want to fix she has ties to In one way or another?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I can't fucking STAND this bitch!!! I HOPE AND PRAY im not forced to vote for this cunt to prevent a Republican presidency. I don't care what anyone on this forum says she is not a progressive but a hypocrite. To think she used to champion single-payer health care....

I hope there's more Hilldog fans that will be so pissed about her being screwed out of the nomination, that they'll either stay home on election day or vote for the Repub nom.

 

[theBLADE1]

You hear that blade? Bernie wants you to stop being a huge asshole. I think you should listen to him.

How am I the ass hole when you're the one calling me names

I'm being truthful about Hillary Clinton and I doubt she's going to read what I wrote. I haven't been asshole to anyone on this board unless there on here purposefully misrepresenting facts. If someone judges candidates not based off of their policies but based off how some of their supporters act then they are the insufferable twat.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

It's not dishonest in fact it's 100% truth. Not a single executive who ran the companies that cooked up and cashed in on the phony financial boom, the industry wide scam that involved the mass sale of mismarked, fraudulent mortgage backed securities, has ever been convicted. Companies like AIG, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Morgan Stanley. Most of these firms were directly involved in elaborate fraud and theft. Lehman Brothers hid billions in loans from its investors. Bank of America lied about billions in bonuses. Goldman Sachs failed to tell clients how it put together the born-to-lose toxic mortgage deals it was selling. What's more, many of these companies had corporate chieftains whose actions cost investors billions! From AIG derivatives chief Joe Cassano, who assured investors they would not lose even "one dollar" just months before his unit imploded, to the $263 million in compensation that former Lehman chief Dick "The Gorilla" Fuld conveniently failed to disclose. Yet not one of them has faced time behind bars. And don't even mention Dodd Frank because it didn't go far enough. Commercial banking and securities activities should be separate, as in not to taking place within the same financial institution.

1) What do you think about Europe allowing Commercial banking and Invesment banking to be under one roof? Aka having Universal Banks?

2) Why have you ignored this thread?

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/w...and-why-it-is-pointless-and-populism.3101921/

http://www.pragcap.com/the-impractical-economics-of-bernie-sanders/

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-11-15/why-democrats-fixate-on-glass-steagall

3) Breaking up big banks

Wrong. She has received millions of dollars to speak at Goldman Sachs not because they like to hear Hillary tell them how she's gonna put a stop to their greedy actions. Anyone who thinks that it's just low-level employees from those companies donating to her campaign are absolutely kidding themselves. She has no plan to expand Obama care to the over 20 million uninsured Americans and has received millions of dollars from giant pharmaceutical companies. That's why she doesn't want Medicare for all.


"First, Glass Steagall would not have protected us during the financial crisis. Remember, the sales pitch for bringing GS back is about separating plain vanilla banking from investment banking and other riskier forms of finance. But the financial crisis didn’t occur primarily in the “supermarket” firms where investment banking and banking were commingled. It occurred largely in the most plain vanilla market of them all – the mortgage market. And while there were certainly some supermarket style firms (like Citi) who were dangerous there were plenty of plain vanilla banks (like Washington Mutual) who failed along with totally separate investment banks (like Lehman). We had separate investment banking and plain vanilla entities who managed to blow themselves up without the help of the supermarket financial model. Glass Steagall would not have stopped the housing boom or the bust from occurring.

More importantly, breaking all of these large entities into smaller entities does not mean they won’t be interconnected. After all, the reason they’ve merged over the years is because they’re so interconnected in the first place. The investment banks are customers of the banks who are customers of the brokerage houses who are customers of the stock exchanges, etc, etc. The financial system is highly interconnected. You can break up who technically owns which parts, but you can’t make it all less interconnected. So, we can separate the ownership, but that doesn’t mean the next 2008 won’t happen because you separated the next Lehman from Washington Mutual.

Bernie Sanders said “the business model of Wall Street is fraud”. This is the sort of comment that convinces me that Bernie Sanders doesn’t understand the financial system all that well. After all, this is no different than saying that all Muslims are evil because Jihadists attacked Paris over the weekend. That’s just silly and it’s based on a dangerous and ignorant generalization. What is he saying exactly? Is he calling every accountant, banker, financial analyst, financial planner, manager and sales person on “Wall Street” part of a fraudulent cartel? This is nothing more than populist rhetoric that some people get charged up about only because they don’t understand the thing they hate. Yes, there is some fraud on Wall Street, but that does not mean the business model of Wall Street is fraud.

The next President of the United States shouldn’t engage in earning votes on such lazy and populist thinking. But what’s more alarming, in my opinion, is that Bernie Sanders says these kinds of things because he simply doesn’t seem to understand the financial system or economics all that well. And that makes an extremist that much more dangerous. In a lot of ways he’s perfectly juxtaposed in these discussions as the Democratic version of Rand Paul. And while the commentary often sounds good in theory it’s often based on a total lack of understanding about very important topics."

http://www.pragcap.com/the-impractical-economics-of-bernie-sanders/

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

You hear that blade? Bernie wants you to stop being a huge asshole. I think you should listen to him.

How am I the ass hole when you're the one calling me names

I'm being truthful about Hillary Clinton and I doubt she's going to read what I wrote. I haven't been asshole to anyone on this board unless there on here purposefully misrepresenting facts. If someone judges candidates not based off of their policies but based off how some of their supporters act then they are the insufferable twat.[/QUOTE]

There have been many articles written on Sanders fans and the crazy, meanness, and anger displayed by them. It says a lot when Bernie himself and his campaign have had to tell people to tone it down.

In any case you are really reaching by trying to act like Hillary never stood for progressive causes.

1) She stands for minimum wage increase

2) She stands for Healthcare for all. Obamacare

3) She will continue the Obama legacy

4) She has always stood for education for all (go back to her Arkansas days)

5) She has always been an environmental realist and supporter (see the State Department work she did).

6) She has for over a decade stood for better economic and financial reform

7) She can speak at Goldman Sachs events still want to regulate them. Hey did you know that there are people who work for Goldman Sachs that want more regulation as well?

8) Do you even know what Goldman Sachs does?

9) All she has 'flipped' on is the Trade Deal and maybe Keystone if you reach. Gay marriage is something she always supported hence LGBTQI community supported her run for NY senate, but she couldn't outright come out and say she supported gay mariage otherwise she'd get attacked. You can call it spineless but it is how politics works. Politics by nature is 'spineless' since people do not use the sword (violence) to achieve their means. Although in some places it can be done that way.

 

[theBLADE1]

1) What do you think about Europe allowing Commercial banking and Invesment banking to be under one roof? Aka having Universal Banks?

I don't follow European banking so I can't give an educated opinion about so I won't.

That second link you posted from the pragmatic capitalist I disregard completely because they are quick to label Bernie Sanders as an extremist

Bernie Sanders is front and center here and while his views often sound good in theory I think they can aptly be described as populist, extremist and largely impractical.

So I instantly disregard anything it has to say. Sorry it is what it is.

I agree with people like Joseph Stiglitz(whom I believe is a Nobel Prize winner) and Robert Reich and over 170 other economist who completely agree with Bernie Sanders on the matter when it comes to minimum wage and reinstating Glass-Steagall. I defer to them on the matter.

There have been many articles written on Sanders fans and the crazy, meanness, and anger displayed by them. It says a lot when Bernie himself and his campaign have had to tell people to tone it down.

This website is the only place that I vent like that. And even here I'm not overtly rude to anybody unless they like to spread misinformation.

 

[theBLADE1]

In any case you are really reaching by trying to act like Hillary never stood for progressive causes.

1) She stands for minimum wage increase

2) She stands for Healthcare for all. Obamacare

3) She will continue the Obama legacy

4) She has always stood for education for all (go back to her Arkansas days)

5) She has always been an environmental realist and supporter (see the State Department work she did).

6) She has for over a decade stood for better economic and financial reform

7) She can speak at Goldman Sachs events still want to regulate them. Hey did you know that there are people who work for Goldman Sachs that want more regulation as well?

8) Do you even know what Goldman Sachs does?

9) All she has 'flipped' on is the Trade Deal and maybe Keystone if you reach. Gay marriage is something she always supported hence LGBTQI community supported her run for NY senate, but she couldn't outright come out and say she supported gay mariage otherwise she'd get attacked. You can call it spineless but it is how politics works. Politics by nature is 'spineless' since people do not use the sword (violence) to achieve their means. Although in some places it can be done that way.

I'm not saying she never stood for progressive values because she has. I'm saying she is not the progressive in this race and not nearly progressive enough anymore. She used to be way more progressive than she is now but then she was gotten to by corruption and political gain.

1) she does but I believe it should be $15

2) Obama care doesn't do anything for the over 20 million uninsured people.

3) she is essentially running on the platform of being Barack Obama's third term. Love him or hate him I believe that's too easy for her and will actually hurt her in the long run.

4) Free college tuition assures that the next generation of Americans will have the smartest doctors and scientist.

5) I believe Bernie Sanders is a better candidate when it comes to saving the environment.

6) no one believes she will reform anything now and Bernie is better on the issues of economic and financial form.

7) yeah not very likely. There may be those people within Goldman Sachs but they're not shot callers.

8) Don't insult my intelligence dude it's an investment bank.

9) Many believe she will revert on the trade deal and Keystone if elected as she helped with both of those.And sorry it is spineless for her not to support people who just wanted the right to marry each other. Bernie Sanders has always supported rights for all people including gays and women. If he did it then why couldn't she? being attacked is not a very good answer. I mean for God sakes she was a politician from New York which is a very progressive state and Bernie was from Vermont of all places which is very rural. Politics may be spineless by nature and that's why Sanders is not your atypical politician. That's why I love him and that's why thousands if not millions of people all over the country love him as well.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You hear that blade? Bernie wants you to stop being a huge asshole. I think you should listen to him.

Yep. Here's the quote from his rapid response director:

"if you support @berniesanders, please follow the senator's lead and be respectful when people disagree with you."

And before that:

"@emilynussbaum will continue to work on it. there's too much hate out here already."

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I'm starting to notice a trend here. It would appear as though that those connected with the establishment are endorsing Hillary while your average everyday person is endorsing Bernie. Interesting.........

I think a bigger trend among voters is that the more informed and aware are going for Bernie, the ones that only superficially follow it are siding with Clinton.

But of course, there are more of the latter than the former. A WHOLE lot of people don't follow politics at all and aren't aware of the issues but still vote. They'll vote Democrat because they're "for the poor people" or "aren't racists" or whatever. Fine.

But Hillary has a huge advantage here because she's had 20+ years of being in the national spotlight. They'll associate her with Bill, they'll remember her name from TV, they'll remember how she went against Obama i 2008, etc.

But unless you were a big political junkie, you'd never heard of Bernie before 2015. That's a giant disadvantage.

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Do people really believe in the redistribution of wealth?

 

[theBLADE1]

I think a bigger trend among voters is that the more informed and aware are going for Bernie, the ones that only superficially follow it are siding with Clinton.

But of course, there are more of the latter than the former. A WHOLE lot of people don't follow politics at all and aren't aware of the issues but still vote. They'll vote Democrat because they're "for the poor people" or "aren't racists" or whatever. Fine.

But Hillary has a huge advantage here because she's had 20+ years of being in the national spotlight. They'll associate her with Bill, they'll remember her name from TV, they'll remember how she went against Obama i 2008, etc.

But unless you were a big political junkie, you'd never heard of Bernie before 2015. That's a giant disadvantage.

It also doesn't help that when those uninformed people tune into news channels like CNN and MSNBC they pant Sanders as a cuckoo socialist and Clinton as being a veteran politician who destroys in all the debates. But yeah you're 100% right her name recognition at this point might be one of the only things keeping her as the clear frontrunner.

Do people really believe in the redistribution of wealth?

Go Panthers!

 

[UpaLoompa]

Interesting side note, if O'Malley fails to receive 15% of the vote then his supporters must either back Sanders or Clinton. Basically this race is a dead heat.

In 2008 my wife caucused (not Iowa) for Kucinich, then Edwards (lol), and finally Obama because of those rules.

 

[UpaLoompa]

As I'm rewatching season 4 of The Wire, I'm convinced a miraculous comeback is imminent. You can do it OMalley.

 

[theBLADE1]

As I'm rewatching season 4 of The Wire, I'm convinced a miraculous comeback is imminent. You can do it OMalley.

Destiny

 

[Jack V Savage]

Do people really believe in the redistribution of wealth?

Everyone does. There are almost no communists left.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Everyone does. There are almost no communists left.

That admit it.

 

[theBLADE1]

Results will start coming in at around 730 and this website will update live as to who is winning in the caucuses in Iowa

https://www.idpcaucuses.com/#/state

 

[Lead]

Former NAACP President Ben Jealous endorses Bernie Sanders

Ben Jealous, former head of the NAACP, officially endorsed Bernie Sanders on Friday, drawing parallels between the ideals of the Vermont senator and those of Martin Luther King Jr.

“I recall the words of the late great Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who said a genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus but a molder of consensus,” Jealous said in a press call organized by the Sanders’ campaign. “And that brings me to why I'm here today. Bernie Sanders has been a principled, courageous, insistent fighter against the evils that Dr. King referred to as the giant triplets of racism, militarism and greed.”

 

[Lead]

Sanders rallies take a darker turn

The boos are getting louder. The chants are getting more personal. The shouts from the crowd are getting more frequent.

Top Democrats supporting Hillary Clinton have noticed the disdain that some of Bernie Sanders’ most hardcore backers have toward her, and are beginning to worry about what it’s going to take to bring them into the fold in November, when they assume Clinton will be the party nominee.

Some of Clinton’s most prominent supporters and fundraisers were unsettled by chants of ‘she’s a liar’ by Sanders supporters Monday at his caucus night rally in Des Moines and the loud booing that ensued when Clinton was shown on the large screens at the front of the room – a reaction that appeared to prompt the nervous Sanders staff into turning off the televisions.

 

[Lead]

Wasserman Schultz: I think Bloomberg will find he doesn't need to run

Michael Bloomberg need not bother with an independent bid for the White House, as far as Debbie Wasserman Schultz is concerned.

At the end of an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Friday, the Democratic National Committee chairwoman and Florida lawmaker responded to a question about whether she thinks the billionaire former mayor of New York would be a threat to her party's candidates, should he decide to run.