Elections Democrat 2016 Primary Thread: V2 It's Still Hillary Edition

Who do you want to win?/ Who do you think will win? (Pick one of each)

  • Total voters
    74
  • Poll closed .
wisdom blows said:
That she is the best chance to keep the White House. Bernie polls better against the GOP than she does.
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You have to cherry pick the polls to thinks Bernie has a better shot in the the general.
 
Gandhi said:
You have to cherry pick the polls to thinks Bernie has a better shot in the the general.
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That's true both ways though. I don't give much credence either to head to heads while a primary is in full swing. People who are strong for their person, might vote against or say undecided for the candidate they dont want on their side.
 
Gandhi said:
You have to cherry pick the polls to thinks Bernie has a better shot in the the general.
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Not only that, but there has been no attacks on Sanders from the right. If he were to win the nomination, he'd get a bunch and his numbers would take a hit. Not necessarily fatal, but it's something to adjust for.
 
Lets not dismiss the fact that the right has only been attacking Hillary tangentially at this point.
No face to face debates. No attack ads (Super Pac or otherwise). Sanders has just been using the truth and compare and contrast methods - kids gloves stuff - while staying on message. Even Hillary's attacks at this point have been less about facts and more about lies against Sanders and his numbers just grow.

I'd be confident in Sanders for the general.
The hard part is getting there, imo.
 
Gandhi said:
You have to cherry pick the polls to thinks Bernie has a better shot in the the general.
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I agree with @Lead Salad that its premature to make any concrete judgement calls on the general at this point, I disagree that cherry picking is necessary to make this way too early call. The RCP average has him beating Trump handedly, slightly beating Cruz, and slightly losing to Rubio. The same averages have Clinton losing slightly to Cruz (this kind of surprised me) and Rubio, while slightly leading Trump.
 
And on top of that, the way Sander's has handled attacks makes me think his numbers would drop significantly from opposition.
 
Anung Un Rama said:
Lets not dismiss the fact that the right has only been attacking Hillary tangentially at this point.
No face to face debates. No attack ads (Super Pac or otherwise). Sanders has just been using the truth and compare and contrast methods - kids gloves stuff - while staying on message. Even Hillary's attacks at this point have been less about facts and more about lies against Sanders and his numbers just grow.

I'd be confident in Sanders for the general.
The hard part is getting there, imo.
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What do you think Benghazi and the related hearings were?

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/256598-fired-benghazi-staffer-panel-is-after-clinton

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...take-was-exactly-what-hillary-clinton-needed/

And for those of us with long memories, that's also what Citizens United was.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._supreme_court_reviews_hillary_the_movie.html

The right has not been tangentially attacking clinton. They have been directly attacking clinton for the past 8 years.
 
Anung Un Rama said:
I agree with @Lead Salad that its premature to make any concrete judgement calls on the general at this point, I disagree that cherry picking is necessary to make this way too early call. The RCP average has him beating Trump handedly, slightly beating Cruz, and slightly losing to Rubio. The same averages have Clinton losing slightly to Cruz (this kind of surprised me) and Rubio, while slightly leading Trump.
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Holy crap, we can do @ with a username now? Is there other stuff I don't know with the new forum?
 
Anung Un Rama said:
Lets not dismiss the fact that the right has only been attacking Hillary tangentially at this point.
No face to face debates. No attack ads (Super Pac or otherwise). Sanders has just been using the truth and compare and contrast methods - kids gloves stuff - while staying on message. Even Hillary's attacks at this point have been less about facts and more about lies against Sanders and his numbers just grow.

I'd be confident in Sanders for the general.
The hard part is getting there, imo.
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But John Kasich promised us that Bernie wouldn't win the presidency at the last debate.
 
Quipling said:
What do you think Benghazi and the related hearings were?

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/256598-fired-benghazi-staffer-panel-is-after-clinton

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...take-was-exactly-what-hillary-clinton-needed/

And for those of us with long memories, that's also what Citizens United was.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._supreme_court_reviews_hillary_the_movie.html

The right has not been tangentially attacking clinton. They have been directly attacking clinton for the past 8 years.
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In spite of all that she was leading the Democratic Nomination contest by an enormous margin.
Those attacks haven't impacted her run for the nom, basic compare and contrast have.
And those attacks will be direct, varied, constant, and mixed with the perfect amount of truth and absurdity to put a huge dent in her numbers in the general. Again, its too early to speculate, but Clinton has many more weaknesses than Sanders. IMO.
 
Anung Un Rama said:
In spite of all that she was leading the Democratic Nomination contest by an enormous margin.
Those attacks haven't impacted her run for the nom, basic compare and contrast have.
And those attacks will be direct, varied, constant, and mixed with the perfect amount of truth and absurdity to put a huge dent in her numbers in the general. Again, its too early to speculate, but Clinton has many more weaknesses than Sanders. IMO.
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All her weaknesses are known and have been the subject of republican attacks for decades. Sanders the socialist has not seen any of this. And Clinton has a chance to appeal to parts of the middle and upper class that Bernie won't, and then there is the appeal to minorities. I agree it's to early, but there is no fun in just leaving it at that :).
 
For those like Anug and Lead who would never vote Hilary, do you really think having more conservative Supreme Court justices would be a good thing? That to me is still one of the most important considerations out there. Hold your nose and don't what is right for the country if you have to.
 
Gandhi said:
For those like Anug and Lead who would never vote Hilary, do you really think having more conservative Supreme Court justices would be a good thing? That to me is still one of the most important considerations out there. Hold your nose and don't what is right for the country if you have to.
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That's big, but also, Republicans currently have the House and the Senate, and are almost certain to keep the House with a pretty good chance to keep the Senate. A Republican president means that they get to actually pass those ACA repeals, crazily regressive changes to the tax code, gutting of the safety net, repeal of financial reform, etc. If you care about the economy, about inequality, about climate, about preventing war, etc., I think it's a very easy choice.
 
I hate it when my friends fight. As an independent observer I would say.

- Jack does put some people into condescending insult buckets too quickly. Most of the times it is deserved, but i can see support for Ron Paul earning this wrath with Anug who I think is a good poster.

- Anung is hitting back hard over that, and other slights, and while I agree that hilary is a neocon on fp and had some bad law and order positions, her policy is more against the establishment than anyone on the republican side, including Paul. Also I think JVS' position re sanders vs bernie is legit and should be accepted as such.

You guys need to have a couple a drinks and knock each other's teeth out and then make up. It's getting silly.
 
Gandhi said:
- Jack does put some people into condescending insult buckets too quickly. Most of the times it is deserved, but i can see support for Ron Paul earning this wrath with Anug who I think is a good poster.
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His vendetta didn't start with me insulting him personally. It was my general contempt for Ron Paul. I remember because it was a change (in that he used to be a fan). So then I was a leftist extremist for being horrified by Paul's policy proposals. But now that he's on the Bernie train, he has to come up with another attack. On my end, I mostly (not 100%) ignored his first couple of years of personal attacks, but in the past year, as he's stepped up the nastiness and dishonesty, I've corrected the record more. He does hint at having some kind of unspecific mental health problems, and appears offended that I once said something about him being unbalanced or something. I would not deliberately poke at someone's disorder. I'd apologize for that if I knew what he was referring to.

After he did admit a big error late last year, I did make an effort to treat him with kid gloves, but his loathsome style made that impossible.
 
Clinton Refrains From Attacking Sanders. He Doesn't Reciprocate.
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Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders both returned to Iowa for their penultimate visits before the Feb. 1 caucuses and as has been recently seen, Sanders took the hard interpersonal line, while Clinton tread softly.

Sanders offered a blistering critique of Clinton, saying that he and his supporters have made her “nervous,” just as Barack Obama did eight years ago. Clinton, meanwhile, approached Sanders respectfully, referring to him as an “esteemed opponent” and limiting her critique of him to a handful of broad policy points.
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Gandhi said:
I hate it when my friends fight. As an independent observer I would say.

- Jack does put some people into condescending insult buckets too quickly. Most of the times it is deserved, but i can see support for Ron Paul earning this wrath with Anug who I think is a good poster.

- Anung is hitting back hard over that, and other slights, and while I agree that hilary is a neocon on fp and had some bad law and order positions, her policy is more against the establishment than anyone on the republican side, including Paul. Also I think JVS' position re sanders vs bernie is legit and should be accepted as such.

You guys need to have a couple a drinks and knock each other's teeth out and then make up. It's getting silly.
Click to expand...

I think what you are asking for is a E-bro down



Saves the punches too.
 
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