Dem debate tonight

[bad seed]

@ SouthofmyAnus shoo fly

i dont know how he gets so many people to bite his bait. He reinvents a different persona for himself every month to troll from different positions. Its best not to engage him at all.

 

[Lead]

Is a video up yet? I missed it

 

[VivaRevolution]

So if Clinton is going to try and define herself as Obama 2.0, she needs to work on her Libya answer, as well as her campaign against Obama, which was nasty.

 

[second sight]

Ridiculous.

Just because Liberals start calling themselves "Progressive" does mean it's true. Just like when they try to frame Street Riots as "Mostly-peaceful Protests", or Terror Attacks as "Workplace Violence", or Mass Sexual Assaults with hundreds of victims as "Largely-peaceful Celebration".

Repeating the euphemism from the Liberal factory without putting quotation marks on them means you've fallen for the trap. Hooked, line and sinker.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...8d4af4-cbc2-11e5-b9ab-26591104bb19_video.html

 

[Anung Un Rama]

i dont know how he gets so many people to bite his bait. He reinvents a different persona for himself every month to troll from different positions. Its best not to engage him at all.

I ignore 99.9% of his drivel, but now and then I like to remind him how lame his posting is.

 

[Selukrid612]

"Madam Secretary... that's a low blow" Bernie's pissed!

Pretty shitty to cling to Obama adulation. "Look, that guy criticized our dear leader!"

She's pinning her hopes on the minority vote and I actually thought it was a clever strategic attack intended to drive a wedge between Bernie and black voters.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Ridiculous.

Just because Liberals start calling themselves "Progressive" does mean it's true. Just like when they try to frame Street Riots as "Mostly-peaceful Protests", or Terror Attacks as "Workplace Violence", or Mass Sexual Assaults with hundreds of victims as "Largely-peaceful Celebration".

Repeating the euphemism from the Liberal factory without putting quotation marks on them means you've got hooked, line and sinker.

Do you really hold the terms "liberal" and "progressive" to have such rigid connotation? If you do, then I assure you that the persons you are referring to as liberals are hardly classified as such academically.

I don't care for Clinton, but in her usage, "progressive" is a broad descriptor. For instance, I prefer to identify myself as a "progressive" because of a fairly arbitrary etymological reason-- I think "liberal" has the colloquial connotation of being free and unrestrained from pragmatism and prefer "progressive" which I feel better denotes a pragmatic pursuit of demonstrably defensible objectives.

 

[VivaRevolution]

In an interview with CNBC’s John Harwood, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), who is running for the Democratic presidential candidacy, said he could back a 90 percent top marginal tax rate.

Which came before he actually released his tax plan correct?

So again your statement is completely false.

 

[second sight]

Do you really hold the terms "liberal" and "progressive" to have such rigid connotation? If you do, then I assure you that the persons you are referring to as liberals are hardly classified as such academically.

I don't care for Clinton, but in her usage, "progressive" is a broad descriptor. For instance, I prefer to identify myself as a "progressive" because of a fairly arbitrary etymological reason-- I think "liberal" has the colloquial connotation of being free and unrestrained from pragmatism and prefer "progressive" which I feel better denotes a pragmatic pursuit of demonstrably defensible objectives.

Both Socialism and Progressivism use government power to control economic outcomes. The methods they use, however, are different. Socialism, strictly speaking, involves the government’s ownership of the means of production in a society. In a socialist economy, there are no private corporations that manufacture goods. All factories and companies belong to the state. Progressivism, by contrast, allows private ownership and control of corporations and manufacturing (thus a private economy and markets), although it does subject them to extensive government administration mostly through heavy regulation as well as other controls.


where are you?

 

[second sight]

Which came before he actually released his tax plan correct?

So again your statement is completely false.

it's his fucking quote,are you calling him a liar?

then explain how he pays for free healthcare, free college

let me math you a question, add over 2 trillion dollars a year to our budget and explain how that gets paid for?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Both Socialism and Progressivism use government power to control economic outcomes. The methods they use, however, are different. Socialism, strictly speaking, involves the government’s ownership of the means of production in a society. In a socialist economy, there are no private corporations that manufacture goods. All factories and companies belong to the state. Progressivism, by contrast, allows private ownership and control of corporations and manufacturing (thus a private economy and markets), although it does subject them to extensive government administration mostly through heavy regulation as well as other controls.


where are you?

Tell me again how Bernie is a socialist?

Where has Bernie ever said anything like this? Please for the love of god someone that calls a Bernie a socialist, show me one statement where Bernie calls for government ownership of the means of production?

Show me where in Scandinavia there is a country that owns the means of production?

 

[andnowweknow]

it's his fucking quote,are you calling him a liar?

then explain how he pays for free healthcare, free college

let me math you a question, add over 2 trillion dollars a year to our budget and explain how that gets paid for?

Do you yell at your computer screen from time to time by chance?

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

I dont think they swayed anybody tonight. If you were a Bernie fan before, you still are. Same with Clinton supporters.

Bernie had the better one liners but Clinton was more knowledgeable.


they really do seem like they're from two different parties.

 

[Lead]

RIP Randleman

 

[second sight]

Tell me again how Bernie is a socialist?

Where has Bernie ever said anything like this? Please for the love of god someone that calls a Bernie a socialist, show me one statement where Bernie calls for government ownership of the means of production?

Show me where in Scandinavia there is a country that owns the means of production?

is this a fucking class and I have to teach you about your own failed party?

google....use it

 

[VivaRevolution]

it's his fucking quote,are you calling him a liar?

then explain how he pays for free healthcare, free college

let me math you a question, add over 2 trillion dollars a year to our budget and explain how that gets paid for?

Single-Payer Health Care: Sanders' Fat-Wallet Proposal

Sanders has been promoting the implementation of a single-payer health care system for months on the campaign trail and released his full plan in January. As president, he would toss Obamacare and replace it with a "Medicare for all" system that he says would cost $1.38 trillion per year but save people and businesses more than $6 trillion over the next decade.

In October, Gerald Friedman, a professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst estimated a single-payer health care system such as the one proposed by Sanders would cost the U.S. federal government $15 trillion, and seven of his other programs -- including increased spending on public infrastructure, expanding social security and making tuition free at public institutions -- would cost an additional $3.5 trillion.

The good news? Friedman also says the health care overhaul would enable up to $10 trillion in savings for the general public. And the other programs? Another $1.1 trillion in additional savings over 10 years. And excluding the issue of likely higher taxes, the programs could mean seven million more jobs and a nearly $4 trillion increase in economic activity in 2026.

Higher Taxes Everywhere, and an End to Free Trade

Sanders has pledged to hike taxes on the wealthy, including a progressive estate tax on the top 0.3% of Americans who inherit more than $3.5 million and lifting the cap on taxable income (the limit of annual wages or self-employment income that is eligible for social security taxes) to above $250,000 (it is currently set at $118,500 for 2015).

He has especially targeted big corporations, pledging to ensure they pay their "fair share" and stop shifting profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying taxes. Should he succeed, it won't just be major companies that feel the hit.

"Higher corporate taxes are not such a big issue for the corporations themselves," said Kwak. "Corporations will pay higher taxes, so the profits available to shareholders will go down. But they will respond in part by increasing prices and in part by reducing employee compensation, so the impact of the taxes will be spread across consumers, employees and investors."

Sanders has also promised to enact a tax on Wall Street speculators and raise the minimum wage to $15 by 2020. The moves don't necessarily indicate hostility toward corporate America but do demonstrate greater willingness to tax corporate profits and redistribute wealth.

"If that happens, then we'll start to see a change in the distribution of national income, which will be interesting in itself, in poverty, higher wages, smaller inequality, but also will put the economy on a path to more stable footing," Friedman said. "The economy is much less stable now than it was before with the great run-up in inequality, and Sanders will be looking to reverse that a little bit, move us to a more balanced distribution of income and a more stable economy."

And, he has pledged to shut down trade policies NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China and the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which would have mixed results but could bring more jobs back to the U.S.

"The theory on these trade agreements is that jobs grow abroad, and whatever benefits happen with regards to exporting our markets, our products, is completely overwhelmed by the loss of American jobs," said Greenberger. "And jobs have gone abroad under existing trade agreements, and those who understand these trade agreements say the same thing will happen with the Trans-Pacific trade agreement."

http://www.thestreet.com/story/1331...e-s-what-would-happen-to-the-u-s-economy.html

 

[VivaRevolution]

is this a fucking class and I have to teach you about your own failed party?

google....use it

It doesn't exist, how do I Google something that doesn't exist?

 

[speakhandsforme]

Both Socialism and Progressivism use government power to control economic outcomes. The methods they use, however, are different. Socialism, strictly speaking, involves the government’s ownership of the means of production in a society. In a socialist economy, there are no private corporations that manufacture goods. All factories and companies belong to the state. Progressivism, by contrast, allows private ownership and control of corporations and manufacturing (thus a private economy and markets), although it does subject them to extensive government administration mostly through heavy regulation as well as other controls.


where are you?

I have never construed progressivism to ever be so narrowly defined or ideologically anchored/restrained. At best, you can argue that, because it was never narrowly defined beyond a political renaissance of sort, it never explicitly broached the topic of public ownership positively or negatively. In fact, wasn't the last official Progressive Party comprised largely of socialists? Either way, I don't regard it to have a stance on the subject.

However, this is a rare substantive and interesting post from you, so I will indulge. Your differentiation, as pertains to properly-rigid modern party definitions, would analogize to the distinction between Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists. I, identical to Bernie Sanders as it happens, prefer to identify as the latter, but espouse the immediate policy of the former. I do support public ownership of some industry and resource allocation, but certainly not all and certainly not in leaps and bounds.

 

[second sight]

Do you yell at your computer screen from time to time by chance?

does that help?

Single-Payer Health Care: Sanders' Fat-Wallet Proposal

Sanders has been promoting the implementation of a single-payer health care system for months on the campaign trail and released his full plan in January. As president, he would toss Obamacare and replace it with a "Medicare for all" system that he says would cost $1.38 trillion per year but save people and businesses more than $6 trillion over the next decade.

In October, Gerald Friedman, a professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst estimated a single-payer health care system such as the one proposed by Sanders would cost the U.S. federal government $15 trillion, and seven of his other programs -- including increased spending on public infrastructure, expanding social security and making tuition free at public institutions -- would cost an additional $3.5 trillion.

The good news? Friedman also says the health care overhaul would enable up to $10 trillion in savings for the general public. And the other programs? Another $1.1 trillion in additional savings over 10 years. And excluding the issue of likely higher taxes, the programs could mean seven million more jobs and a nearly $4 trillion increase in economic activity in 2026.

Higher Taxes Everywhere, and an End to Free Trade

Sanders has pledged to hike taxes on the wealthy, including a progressive estate tax on the top 0.3% of Americans who inherit more than $3.5 million and lifting the cap on taxable income (the limit of annual wages or self-employment income that is eligible for social security taxes) to above $250,000 (it is currently set at $118,500 for 2015).

He has especially targeted big corporations, pledging to ensure they pay their "fair share" and stop shifting profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying taxes. Should he succeed, it won't just be major companies that feel the hit.

"Higher corporate taxes are not such a big issue for the corporations themselves," said Kwak. "Corporations will pay higher taxes, so the profits available to shareholders will go down. But they will respond in part by increasing prices and in part by reducing employee compensation, so the impact of the taxes will be spread across consumers, employees and investors."

Sanders has also promised to enact a tax on Wall Street speculators and raise the minimum wage to $15 by 2020. The moves don't necessarily indicate hostility toward corporate America but do demonstrate greater willingness to tax corporate profits and redistribute wealth.

"If that happens, then we'll start to see a change in the distribution of national income, which will be interesting in itself, in poverty, higher wages, smaller inequality, but also will put the economy on a path to more stable footing," Friedman said. "The economy is much less stable now than it was before with the great run-up in inequality, and Sanders will be looking to reverse that a little bit, move us to a more balanced distribution of income and a more stable economy."

And, he has pledged to shut down trade policies NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China and the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which would have mixed results but could bring more jobs back to the U.S.

"The theory on these trade agreements is that jobs grow abroad, and whatever benefits happen with regards to exporting our markets, our products, is completely overwhelmed by the loss of American jobs," said Greenberger. "And jobs have gone abroad under existing trade agreements, and those who understand these trade agreements say the same thing will happen with the Trans-Pacific trade agreement."

http://www.thestreet.com/story/1331...e-s-what-would-happen-to-the-u-s-economy.html

socialized healthcare, got it

 

[VivaRevolution]

does that help?

socialized healthcare, got it

Yep, and 17% of GDP and rising on HC will collapse this country if allowed to continue, and is the number 1 driver of our debt, you right leaning people love to howl at the moon about.