Deconstructing MMA Myths... [Part 7] - Skill Set & MMA Evolution: The HWs Case

[AJ Garcia]

You don't understand what MMA "evolution" is and how/why MMA has evolved.
striking, for example, has gotten way better, back then its pretty much 2 guys stand in the pocket and trade shot. but now people start using good footwork to evade shots,confuse their opponent,and to set up strikes and thats at the most basic level.striking variety also increases a lot, there are way more striking techniques than ever, like Dominick said in Felder vs perry fight.
Go watch some current elite fighters techniques breakdown. you will realize how much the sports has evolved

I love both of these videos and have spent a lot of time studying them. That switch TJ does into the head kick is awesome, especially if you throw the cross with it to get their hands up. Good stuff.

 

[Mga223]

We´re talking about well-roundedness here, not about Fighter X beats Fighter Y.

Yea fighters before were well rounded but never amazing at one skill set like today.

 

[gono btw]

Yea fighters before were well rounded but never amazing at one skill set like today.

Hard to top Minotau´s grappling, Crocop´s striking or Sergei´s boxing...

 

[Pem123]

Hw is almost always the weakest in UFC, so its really not fair to use that as an example.

We definitely has better athletes in term of skills and athleticism.

 

[gono btw]

Hw is almost always the weakest in UFC, so its really not fair to use that as an example.

We definitely has better athletes in term of skills and athleticism.

as stated in the OP:

Check the following theads about LHWs & MWs:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/

 

[NoSmilez]

The guys in the past also used a lot of performance enhancement drugs. I love Mirko but he supposedly won the Pride Tournament and had the best performance. He comes to USA and just gets wrecked by any bullshit striker. Same deal with Nog except he took a lot of damage in his pride career. It was a bit disappointment as a fan

 

[gono btw]

The guys in the past also used a lot of performance enhancement drugs. I love Mirko but he supposedly won the Pride Tournament and had the best performance. He comes to USA and just gets wrecked by any bullshit striker. Same deal with Nog except he took a lot of damage in his pride career. It was a bit disappointment as a fan

this thread is trying to go beyond the mere PEDs analysis...

 

[NoSmilez]

this thread is trying to go beyond the mere PEDs analysis...

Even in terms of skillset. The old UFC and Pride guys weren't too far apart. A lot of it is just opportunity to fight at the right time. You have Sokoudjou whose career was pretty much a flop but he did beat two of the best Pride LHWs when he had a 2-1 record.
In terms of modern MMA, guys are coming in bigger and better trained. The game has evolved, you can even learn through youtube to patch up holes in your game if you really wanted. This didn't exist 10-15 years ago. Also most of the previous generation didn't give back or started training others. Only recently we have young well rounded kids that are coming up. You have kids coming up training MMA and fighting amateur fights.

 

[gono btw]

Even in terms of skillset. The old UFC and Pride guys weren't too far apart. A lot of it is just opportunity to fight at the right time. You have Sokoudjou whose career was pretty much a flop but he did beat two of the best Pride LHWs when he had a 2-1 record.
In terms of modern MMA, guys are coming in bigger and better trained. The game has evolved, you can even learn through youtube to patch up holes in your game if you really wanted. This didn't exist 10-15 years ago. Also most of the previous generation didn't give back or started training others. Only recently we have young well rounded kids that are coming up. You have kids coming up training MMA and fighting amateur fights.

as stated in the OP, this thread is about...HWs...

Check the following theads about LHWs & MWs:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Even in terms of skillset. The old UFC and Pride guys weren't too far apart. A lot of it is just opportunity to fight at the right time. You have Sokoudjou whose career was pretty much a flop but he did beat two of the best Pride LHWs when he had a 2-1 record.
In terms of modern MMA, guys are coming in bigger and better trained. The game has evolved, you can even learn through youtube to patch up holes in your game if you really wanted. This didn't exist 10-15 years ago. Also most of the previous generation didn't give back or started training others. Only recently we have young well rounded kids that are coming up. You have kids coming up training MMA and fighting amateur fights.

This guy gets it.. fighters from older generations where still primarily coming with one style or mastery then added things as needed..but todays generation are jumping into the game learning all of MMAs facets and then picking there specialty once having an established MMA base skill level..ofcourse there's some fighters who are still specializing in one style and adding more over time but there's becoming rarer ...as the overall fighter knowledge base is becoming better..that's why who are being toted for their physical characteristics are being rewarded in modern MMA because there getting a well rounded MMA education now and days to start and are using there althetic prowess to sucweds..if they want to do it that way..there's just more options now that weren't there before

 

[gono btw]

This guy gets it.. fighters from older generations where still primarily coming with one style or mastery then added things as needed..but todays generation are jumping into the game learning all of MMAs facets and then picking there specialty once having an established MMA base skill level..ofcourse there's some fighters who are still specializing in one style and adding more over time but there's becoming rarer ...as the overall fighter knowledge base is becoming better..that's why who are being toted for their physical characteristics are being rewarded in modern MMA because there getting a well rounded MMA education now and days to start and are using there althetic prowess to sucweds..if they want to do it that way..there's just more options now that weren't there before

hmmm... actually the 2000s HW generation, b4 competing in Pride, sharpened his skill set in Rings or Early Pancrase, where u HAD to work on your ground game to be competitive.
The current HW generation is pretty one-dimensional, or old HWs from the 2000s era.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

hmmm... actually the 2000s HW generation, b4 competing in Pride, sharpened his skill set in Rings or Early Pancrase, where u HAD to work on your ground game to be competitive.
The current HW generation is pretty one-dimensional, or old HWs from the 2000s era.

Maybe on that side of the world .. but those competing in North America and brazil where pretty one demensional till pride and post Gracie UFC started developing..only those ahead of the game where mixing styles well..Frank shamrock, ken shamrock, minotauro ..Fedor etc..but these guys where the exceptions and not the norm
...don fryes, mark Coleman,Maurice Smith and bas butten of the world where the norm..however bas did become more well rounded over time but at the start he didn't know shit

 

[Bamboozled]

You don't understand what MMA "evolution" is and how/why MMA has evolved.
striking, for example, has gotten way better, back then its pretty much 2 guys stand in the pocket and trade shot. but now people start using good footwork to evade shots,confuse their opponent,and to set up strikes and thats at the most basic level.striking variety also increases a lot, there are way more striking techniques than ever, like Dominick said in Felder vs perry fight.
Go watch some current elite fighters techniques breakdown. you will realize how much the sports has evolved

Both of these guys are worse strikers than Vovchanchyn. So you just made a shitpost. Grats.

 

[gono btw]

Maybe on that side of the world .. but those competing in North America and brazil where pretty one demensional till pride and post Gracie UFC started developing..only those ahead of the game where mixing styles well..Frank shamrock, ken shamrock, minotauro ..Fedor etc..but these guys where the exceptions and not the norm
...don fryes, mark Coleman,Maurice Smith and bas butten of the world where the norm..however bas did become more well rounded over time but at the start he didn't know shit

we´re here talkin´about the HW generation that emerged from Rings/Pancrase and went to compete in Pride, the elite org. in 2006.

Frye,Coleman.Maurice,Bas... belong to the 1990s generation, not the one assessed here.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

we´re here talkin´about the HW generation that emerged from Rings/Pancrase and went to compete in Pride, the elite org. in 2006.

Frye,Coleman.Maurice,Bas... belong to the 1990s generation, not the one assessed here.

Perhaps i missed that in the O.P ..and was looking at it from a more general MMA picture.. either way I believe the HW divison has the slowest skill growth rate of all division due to the fact that big strong guys can ko anyone at any time...so the need for higher skill isn't as necessary as a good chin and power ...but take a smaller division and you have the need for technical superiority..also there has never really been too.many top.althetes in the big weight.classes because the pay is so shit..they'd rather do pro wrestling or other top paying sports..

Hence why ken left

 

[NoSmilez]

as stated in the OP, this thread is about...HWs...

Check the following theads about LHWs & MWs:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/

It makes no difference. Do heavyweights train separately from others? They still need to learn the same technique. There isn’t a mystery golden age. If anything the fighters are better. You see Cain as a wrestler throw a spinning kick later in his career. You have guys like cro cop that will circle to the opponent’s power side no matter what

 

[gono btw]

Perhaps i missed that in the O.P ..and was looking at it from a more general MMA picture.. either way I believe the HW divison has the slowest skill growth rate of all division due to the fact that big strong guys can ko anyone at any time...so the need for higher skill isn't as necessary as a good chin and power ...but take a smaller division and you have the need for technical superiority..also there has never really been too.many top.althetes in the big weight.classes because the pay is so shit..they'd rather do pro wrestling or other top paying sports..

Hence why ken left

I decided to make several threads according to the weight class, coz it´s a different skill set evolotion.

A BW skill set evolution is realistically not relevant here since back in the days, there was no BW weight class, and the few BWs had to fight @ openweight.

Different Fight Configuration means Different Skill Set Evolution.

 

[gono btw]

It makes no difference. Do heavyweights train separately from others? They still need to learn the same technique. There isn’t a mystery golden age. If anything the fighters are better. You see Cain as a wrestler throw a spinning kick later in his career. You have guys like cro cop that will circle to the opponent’s power side no matter what

This thread is trying to assess the skill set evolution per weight class, since some weight classes (the lighter ones) had to fight @ openweight.

The recent skill set evolution is linked to a Fight Configuration Evolution:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/

 

[tenniswhiz]

2006 HW division was stacked to the gills and Fedor reigned supreme with ease

Fedor is lucky that top competition “next generation” fighters like Werdum and Hendo weren’t in Pride with him.

They would have beaten guys like Nog, Arlovski, Sergei, with ease, and then gone after Fedor.

 

[gono btw]

2006 HW division was stacked to the gills and Fedor reigned supreme with ease

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...art-16-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/#post-145851601