Deconstructing MMA Myths... [Part 7] - Skill Set & MMA Evolution: The HWs Case

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by gono btw, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. gono btw Rounds...

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    Today :

    Skill Set & MMA Evolution - The HWs Case.


    Check the following theads about LHWs & MWs & WWs:

    http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/

    http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/


    http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-21-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/

    Note: this thread can be seen as an extension of this one:

    http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/


    Some 'evolutionists' here keep claimin´ that the game has evolved exponentially,
    and that the current generation is definitely more talented/less 'one-dimensional' than the previous one, from the 2000s.

    > Context:

    In retrospect, NHB/Vale Tudo was much less refined...Even the BJJ Black Belts, most of the time, would GNP...

    If you look at the BJJ vs Luta Livre Challenges [1984 or 1991], or hardcore tournaments like WVC or IVC,
    half of the dudes invited were BJJ dudes, and the fights were pretty gruelling ones, not really technical.

    Early Pancrase tried to promote a new evolution, more technical, with fighters working on their
    ground game and trying to built a submission game (that´s why GNP was forbidden, great idea...).
    A talented generation willing to create cross-training teams,and adapt their game to a new fight configuration, technically more demanding .

    Rings too had this same objective. And you could say that both had a clear influence
    in Early Pride´s game...

    Then, Pride added some rules, that made it difficult for submission artists to take risks on the ground:
    [till the knee-to-a-downed-opponent rule, technically - Pride 13],

    On a sidenote: some of them HWs were actually LHWs bulking,which means that they would retain some of their agility and quickness, while competing/grappling @ HW...

    > Now, about the 'Well-Roundedness' Concept:

    Ground control has become the new paradigm these days.
    Modern Rules & Fight Configuration led the path to a new Skill Set Evolution.

    Today, the best "well rounded" fighters are 'defensively' well-rounded, in grappling for instance:
    they know for sure how to defend this or that submission.

    But one might argue that their offensive submission game has become sub-par,
    since most coaches now "prohibit" risky subs like leglocks or armbars for instance.

    Well-Roundedness has consequently become limited to its poorest dimension.

    But, this cannot be only about a defensive posture:
    A "well-rounded" fighter, in his higher and richer meaning,should be someone who can be a threat wherever the fight goes [shout-out to Marco Huas].

    Hence, let´s try to assess this Evolution Thing, starting 1st with the HWs.

    2006:

    1.) Fedor Emelianenko Russia [30 yrs]
    2.) Rodrigo 'Minotauro' Nogueira Brazil [30 yrs]
    3.) Mark Hunt New Zealand [32 yrs]
    4.) Mirko 'Cro Cop' Filipovic Croatia [32 yrs]
    5.) Fabricio Werdum Brazil [29 yrs]
    6.) Sergei Kharitonov Russia [26 yrs]
    7.) Josh Barnett USA [29 yrs]
    8.) Alexander Emelianenko Russia [25 yrs]
    9.) Heath Herring USA [28 yrs]
    10.) Kazuyuki Fujita Japan [36 yrs]


    2018: [Current UFC Ranking]

    Champion : Daniel Cormier [39 yrs]
    1 Stipe Miocic [36 yrs]
    2 Derrick Lewis [33 yrs]
    3 Curtis Blaydes [27 yrs]
    4 Francis Ngannou [31 yrs]
    5 Alexander Volkov [29 yrs]
    6 Alistair Overeem [38yrs]
    7 Junior Dos Santos [34 yrs]
    8 Mark Hunt [44 yrs]
    9 Marcin Tybura [32 yrs]

    Which Generation was indeed the most Well-Rounded one?
    Which Fighters were truly the most well-rounded?


    Important: this thread is not about who would win in H2H confrontations,
    or who took/is taking more PEDs.
    That´s why Im asking here to go beyond the clichés/myths... from both sides...
    & to focus solely on this division (a BW comparison wouldnt make sense)...


    Matt_Hume_at_Evolve_MMA_in_Singapore.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  2. Davey Crockett Mane, Firmino, Salah Banned

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    Great thread Mr TS sir!

    I'd say 2006 gen were more well rounded, but cant help feel that say Stiopic for instance could hold his own with all of them on the ground, defensively speaking.
     
  3. 2006 HW division was stacked to the gills and Fedor reigned supreme with ease
     
  4. Mga223 Steel Belt

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    Except for Lewis over hunt every other person beats whoever they mark up against.
     
  5. mposhtkouhi Banned Banned

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    Hey sherdog has a draftkings group every event we do a 15 person top 2 get paid 10 dollar entry if any1 wants to do it let me know ill add u?
     
  6. THEfightsAREfixed you can do it

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    Fedor is the goat for a reason.
     
  7. Sonny Qc 86,425 Likes

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    Can you post the link for the First 6 parts ?

    I got OCD, can't start at #7 ...
     
  8. Fesaine Brown Belt

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    You don't understand what MMA "evolution" is and how/why MMA has evolved.
    striking, for example, has gotten way better, back then its pretty much 2 guys stand in the pocket and trade shot. but now people start using good footwork to evade shots,confuse their opponent,and to set up strikes and thats at the most basic level.striking variety also increases a lot, there are way more striking techniques than ever, like Dominick said in Felder vs perry fight.
    Go watch some current elite fighters techniques breakdown. you will realize how much the sports has evolved

     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  9. gono btw Rounds...

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    We´re talking about well-roundedness here, not about Fighter X beats Fighter Y.
     
  10. mallen7272 Shooper

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    Kharitonov was scary in 06
     
  11. gono btw Rounds...

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  12. Sonny Qc 86,425 Likes

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  13. Fesaine Brown Belt

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  14. Tour'soverboyo Banned Banned

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    Myth: MMA is a legitimate sport

    Fact: It’s not, it’s barely a rung above WWE
     
  15. gono btw Rounds...

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    Someone didnt read the OP...
     
  16. gono btw Rounds...

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  17. gono btw Rounds...

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  18. Fesaine Brown Belt

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  19. The_Buckanater Purple Belt

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    He was alright but he got by because people liked to box with him but he was subpar off of his back.
     
  20. gono btw Rounds...

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    And other fighters/coaches/ATGs who think differently, that´s why we´re debating here...

    Hume for instance, has seen it all, from Early Pancrase to current UFC, as a fighter, judge, coach, rule director, head official.
     

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