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Deconstructing MMA Myths... [Part 30] - MMA´s Buster Douglas...
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I think the GSP vs Serra was a big upset, so was the Kerr fight, but in reality, neither possessed that aura of invincibility.
Nobody had the aura Mike Tyson had so the best comparisons fall short.
The closest thing to aura of invincibility would be Jon Jones in late 2011 or something and even that isn't a good comparison.
Nobody had the aura Mike Tyson had so the best comparisons fall short.
The closest thing to aura of invincibility would be Jon Jones in late 2011 or something and even that isn't a good comparison.
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Another good thread from Gono, even if the numerous jabs at mah boy GSP gave me severe PTSD
Mark Kerr vs the Gracie clan was definitely a very interesting match-up, while waiting for these fights to materialize, mangaka Tetsuya Saruwatari even wrote/drew his own version of what these bouts would look like, which was awesome:
Now go read the rest of the fight on Kissmanga or something, I ain't posting the whole thing
ah..we´re lucky... bro Fannin from Hammer House sent us this ol´Jap. magazine...
On the left side:
> above: "You are the only one who can defeat the Gracies!", you can read:
"Mark Kerr. Born in 1968... Current seen as "invincible" in fights with no rules! "
By the way, Fannin, you have to choose: Hammer House or No Rush?
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Fedor,Wanderlei,and Mirko until Nog beat him. Even after losing Mirko still had a terrifying aura in his matches.
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Fujita almost KO'ing the GOAT is an upset in its own right, imo.
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These little interviews are the shit. I even made a thread many moons ago in which I took the time to collect them all, and made a nice, neat thread of it; no one ever commented on it despite my desperate !bumps...
When you spend most of your teenage years rasslin' in Columbus, watching Hammer House vs Gracie events, you don't choose the Hammer , the Hammer chooses you.
But If I had to answer, gun to my head...
Why not both?
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Warning: TLDR here.
Today:[JMMA & USA MMA Scene]
MYTH:
Matt Serra pulled the GOAT Upset @ UFC 69...
This fight was even billed '2000s Upset of The Decade' by several [US] media.
Obviously fresher in people´s mind, another [older] upset got overlooked...
The truth is... this feat belongs to this man:
View attachment 553279
...when he met Kerr @ Pride Grand Prix 2000 Finals [May 1, 2000]
View attachment 553299
Serra´s upset is obviously a potential GOAT one too, no doubt about it.
Essentially for 2 reasons:
> Serra was undersized, a natural LW realistically...
> The Challenger was hardly 'elite', and for sure nowhere near No Rush´s level.
But...let´s try to see why 'Ironhead' has a better case... It´s actually all about contexts...
1/ Smashin´Machine:
CONTEXT 1: Kerr conquerin´ 2 Continents b4 headin´ to Pride:
Also known as The Smashing Machine, The Titan, and The Specimen, Kerr had an impressive start:
> Won 3 tournaments in 1997 [WVC 3, UFC 14 & 15]
> Blasted through 3 opponents in 1998 in Pride [incl. 2 Luta Livre Veterans]
> Had an easy [money] fight against Takada in 1999, and then a controversial bout against ATG & P4P Igor (originally a loss, it was later declared a NC since knees to the head of a downed opponent were illegal at the time).
Now, obviously somethin´happened in that fight: even though Kerr spent most of the 2 rounds on top of Igor, he basically L&Ped, while Igor inflicted legit damage on the feet, and was even more active in the guard.
But...that was Igor, a killer, and it could have been an off night for Kerr too...
Anyway, Kerr was fadin´and arguably losin´this fight, accordin´to Pride´s Scoring System.
Nonetheless, he rebounded in 2000:
Easy win over Enson Inoue (was ruled a [generous] Majority Dec.), even though it was a pretty lackluster performance.
Enson did really nothin´, was quickly taken down, but Kerr indeed showcased rather weak GNP, and his sub attempts were not really tight [2 neck cranks & 1 smother choke]
By 2000, Kerr was already considered a top2 HW & P4P dude.
Jus´b4 the fight we´re talkin´about:
Sherdog rankings from 2000 - 2002
April 25, 2000
HeavyWeights (over 200):
1-Igor Vovchanchin
2-Mark Kerr
3-Pedro Rizzo
4-Tom Erikson
5-Randy Couture
6-Enson Inoue
7-Carlão Barreto
8-Kevin Randleman
9-Rodrigo Nogueira
10-Pete Williams
11-Josh Barnett
CONTEXT 2: ADCC:
He also had 2 dominant runs @ ADCC:
> Gold in 1999 [+99 kg]
> Gold in 2000 [+99 kg]
> Gold in 2000 [Absolute]
...defeatin´ the likes of Rigan Machado, Barnett (x2),Barretão,Ricco etc...only losin´to Arona on points.
CONTEXT 3: His Aura:
The Kerr vs Gurgel fight @ WVC changed the paradigm for the BJJ community, and showed that the no rounds fight configuration is insufficient for a smaller [technical] competitor against a bigger one, especially [super-roided] wrasslers.
Kerr´s victory over Gurgel at WVC literally traumatized the whole BJJ Community.
He became the boogeyman for the whole Brazilian Vale Tudo scene.
Pride signed him and quickly tried to match him against Hoyce ($145,000), but Hoyce injured his back in 1998.
Hickson Interview [October 11, 1997]:
How would you see a match with Mark Kerr going?
> Hickson:
"Kerr is a big strong guy with a good base. I would imagine him tiring out and giving me an opening."
Hickson Interview [April 1998]:
What do you say to the people who criticize you and say that you only fight "weak" opponents and are dodging the top fighters like Kerr?
> Hickson:
"I tell them, if somebody wants to fight me that bad then come to my school."
But you were offered to take Royce's place in the Pride event and declined. Why?
> Hickson:
"I never take a fight on 1 month notice. If they want me to fight Kerr, then give me three months in advance."
Kerr had an aura of invincibility, was undefeated (12-0-1NC).
He was a 'machine' and he also had that 'fear' factor (jus´ like Coleman b4 him, or Igor...)
Tough fighters (like Duarte @ Pride 4or Mestre Hulk @ WVC 3@ 9mn:) would literally crawl out of the ring...@ 29mn20:
In comparison, No Rush, as great as he was, didnt have that aura (at least in 2007) or fear factor.
He had already showed some limitations against:
> [WW] Hughes who schooled him in one round 2 years b4.
> [LW] BJ, against whom he earned a [controversial] Split Dec. 2 fights earlier...
> Menjivar [@ UCC], another undersized opponent (Ivan even fought @ BW), a controversial fight that should have been declared a NC, as No Rush himself acknowledged it.
2/ IRONHEAD :
His Background:
Originally a decorated amateur wrestler, missed the Olympics for one point.
Then transitioned to Pro Wrasslin´ @ NJPW , under Inoki.
His Skill Set:
Ironhead assessin´his own skill set:
"I am not so great a puncher, nor so great a kicker. I don't really have anything all that great.
But in today's vale tudo, the strongest is the one that can take a beating."
His Road to the Pride Grand Prix 2000 Finals:
His rookie fight was against Hans Nijman, a Rings veteran, Dutch kickboxer, pretty limited on the ground, a favourable match-up for Fujita, realistically...
He was then matched up [very carefully, for a change] @ Extreme Shootout - The Underground, a one night
tournament:
> against Dan Chase, 0-4 at the time (finished his career with a 0-9 record...).
> against Will Childs, 0-1 at the time (finished his career with a 1-4 record...)
In short, leadin´to this big fight with Kerr, Ironhead was still a complete rookie who had transitioned to MMA... 3 months earlier (!?)
In comparison, Serra was already a UFC Vet., with legit experience against elite fighters like BJ or Din Thomas...
His biggest test, against Nijman, didnt last long and showed very lil about his real skill set, especially his striking.
Meanwhile, there was no possible way to have any idea about his legendary chin/will....
Consequently, this match-up between a potential top2 HW & P4P and a complete rookie, seemed like a total mismatch.
Imagine current Khabib [Mach 10] facin´ a rookie Kamal Shalorus...
More: in terms of skill set, there was nothing indicatin´ that Ironhead had anythin´for Kerr, on paper...
CONCLUSION:
Ironhead was:
> a complete rookie
> new to this game
> unknown when it comes to his skill set for MMA
> unranked
While Serra, even though undersized (natural LW), was:
> a veteran
> experienced (big fights and high level opponents)
> ranked, somehow...
Smashin´Machine was a top 2 HW & P4P dude...
While No Rush was realistically not top 10 P4P in 2007.
2007 Sherdog.com MMA Rankings
1. Fedor Emelianenko (26-1)
2. Mauricio Rua (16-2)
3. Gilbert Melendez (12-0)
4. Dan Henderson (22-5)
5. Anderson Silva (19-4)
6. Quinton Jackson (27-6)
7. Takanori Gomi (27-3)
8. Shinya Aoki (11-2)
9. Sean Sherk (32-2)
10. Norifumi Yamamoto (15-1)
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-24-carlson´s-silence.3879035/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/#post-144836697
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-14-mousasi-flukes.3836617/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-1-2.3844333/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-2-2.3844507/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-16-siamese-brothers-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-25-the-wild-wild-east.3886295/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-groovy-paradox.3893619/page-3#post-148236621
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-28-deaf-ears.3907767/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-penn-the-frontrunner.3925599/#post-149993595
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-30-mma´s-buster-douglas.3935185/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-fights-start-from-standing-position.3808087/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...tion-of-submission-defence-grappling.3803333/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-striking.3831261/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-2-hunto´s-atomicbutt-drop.3735841/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-1-hoyce-his-gi-ufc-1.3734725/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...hs-part-8-mma-cans-the-unsung-heroes.3822123/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-10-b4-after-usada.3826221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-11-fighters´evolution.3827221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-17-askren´s-undefeated-record.3855315/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-18-the-genesis-of-ufc-1´s-roster.3855847/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-20-judges-mma-ideology.3862173/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-21-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...part-22-the-avenged-losses-narrative.3874257/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/
All I got to say to that is people underrate Buster Douglas as if he were some bum and not a top contender. Get the point though people underrate Serra(though Serra was nowhere nearly as high regarded by then, it's why he was on TUF).
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ok, but nobody´s badmouthin´Buster, Fujita or Serra here, tho...
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No doubt but everyone not only assumed you would lose to Tyson but lose in under 3 minutes most of the time.
That destructive aura hasn’t been replicated. It is unfair though, since MMA has grappling which tends to stifle the pace and action so the comparison isn’t right.
But Mike had one crazy aura.
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Quality stuff, bro
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