Deconstructing MMA Myths... [Part 17] - Askren´s Undefeated Record...

If we follow your logic:

Askren vs Hieron = Khabib vs Tibau = Pacquiao vs Bradley 1.

View attachment 460837

Nope!
There are robberies in boxing and MMA too.
But Askren vs Hieron and Khabib vs Tibau were not robberies.

Robberies:
Hamil vs Bisping
Condit vs Lawler
Sanchez vs Pearson
Every Artem's decision loss
 
Im more interested in showing the [hidden] controversy... I dont need to convince people, tbh...
Fair enough. I do enjoy these threads and hope you make more of them dude.
 
Nope!
There are robberies in boxing and MMA too.
But Askren vs Hieron and Khabib vs Tibau were not robberies.

Robberies:
Hamil vs Bisping
Condit vs Lawler
Sanchez vs Pearson
Every Artem's decision loss
The Thibau [sad] Affair:

3 Rounds, 15 mns...4mn48 of pure Wall&Stall...
7 Wall&Stall situations, but only 2 Yamazaki´s interferences...
ONE complete Round lost, sadly... Nobody won that fight, tbh...
 
The Thibau [sad] Affair:

3 Rounds, 15 mns...4mn48 of pure Wall&Stall...
7 Wall&Stall situations, but only 2 Yamazaki´s interferences...
ONE complete Round lost, sadly... Nobody won that fight, tbh...

Khabib was more aggresive. I know that it doesn't count for the judges.
I agree that it was a shitty fight.
Same for Till vs Wonderboy.
Hey, but at least the first tried something.

I don't remember much from Hieron vs Askren, but I believe Askren was a little more dominant. Anyway, not a robbery.
 
Khabib was more aggresive. I know that it doesn't count for the judges.
I agree that it was a shitty fight.
Same for Till vs Wonderboy.
Hey, but at least the first tried something.

I don't remember much from Hieron vs Askren, but I believe Askren was a little more dominant. Anyway, not a robbery.
Askren was anythin´ but [a lil more] dominant, Im afraid....
 
Today:

MYTH: Askren´s undefeated record.


Indeed, I have to question one particular fight:

BEN ASKREN vs JAY HIERON.

Happened @ Bellator 56 [29/10/2011], for the Bellator WW Belt [Askren´s 1st defence]

Context:
Hieron has a wrestling background, but progressively became more of a striker.
Solid boxing, decent jab/combos.
Good Sprawls.
Hieron was 35 yrs old, realistically past his physical prime... He would retire 15 months later.
Was his 27th fight, while it was Askren´s 9th fight (27 yrs old)

Round 1:


> Toughest Round to score.
> All Askren´s TDs were stuffed, Hieron showcasin´some good sprawls...
> Askren was even actually countered & taken down after 1 TD attempt, & Hieron controlled him on the ground.
Ground Controle = 30s. [4m20>3mn50]
> Hieron had more efficient striking on the feet, cleaner striking, good use of the jab, good combos.
> Askren´s striking was rather primitive, even 'unprofessional' at times, as he would punch
and then lazily turn his back...
He still had a couple of punches & 1 knee off the clinch, as efficient strikes.

10-9 Hieron.

Round 2:

> Askren got the early TD. Good Ground Control, but bureaucratic Ground Game:
lack of good transitions, no real submission attempts, limited damage during the GNP,
some good knees.
Ground Control = 4mn25

10-9 Askren.

Round 3:

> Hieron outboxin´ & pickin´ him apart, good leg kicks too.
> Askren only scored a slap on the feet.
> Askren only had 1 TD attempt, easily stuffed.
> Then Askren got the body lock, and scored a good TD, @ 2mn50
Ground Control = 1mn05. [2m50>1mn45]
> But no legit damage done during the GNP.
> Askren showcased limited transitions again, hardly in position to pass guard.
> Askren got reversed.
> Askren scored a right hand off the clinch while getting up.
> Last 90 sec: Hieron scored 1 leg kick, Askren 1 body kick.
Overall, Hieron slightly outboxin´him, with more effective strikes.

10-9 Hieron.

Round 4:

> Hieron outboxing him in the 1st 30 sec.
> Askren got the TD, got his back & started to GNP, mostly with good knees to the body.
Ground Control = 2mn39 [4mn22>1mn43]
> @ 1mn43, Hieron rolled & escaped.
> Last 100 sec: Hieron completely outboxed him, with jabs and countering with right hook.
> Last 15 sec: Hieron suffered an eye poke.

10-9 Askren.

Round 5:

> Askren got no TDs.
> Hieron completely outboxed him. Scored with some leg kicks too.
> Hieron even dropped him with a spinning shit kick.
> Hieron began tauntin´& kickin´ him.

10-9 Hieron.


VERDICT:

> Jimmy Smith had it 48-47 Hieron.

> 2 Judges had it 48-47 Askren, while the 3rd one had it 48-47 Hieron.

> IMO it was a 48-47 Hieron.

True if huge
 
Hieron was 35 yrs old, realistically past his physical prime... He would retire 15 months later.

Hieron was also on a 10 fight win streak.

I'd liken it to Khabib's first test against a tough grappler in Tibau. It's a learning experience when you're coming up. Askren said he tried to focus on his stand up in camp for that fight at the expense of his wrestling and after that fight he never made that mistake again.

xr1UrZ8.png
 
Hieron was also on a 10 fight win streak.

I'd liken it to Khabib's first test against a tough grappler in Tibau. It's a learning experience when you're coming up. Askren said he tried to focus on his stand up in camp for that fight at the expense of his wrestling and after that fight he never made that mistake again.

xr1UrZ8.png
The problem was not his wrestling, imo, but his transitions...

Nobody won that Khabib-Thibau fight, only losers: us.
 
Saw this from your other decon thread.


Good read.
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bellators-jay-hieron-ben-askren-190000522.html

"I think I'm the champ, man," . "I think I did enough to win. I think I won the first round, the third round, and the fifth. I closed the show, the championship round, hands down."

Askren appeared defeated even when his hand was raised. He was clearly not happy with his performance.

Hieron, on the other hand, reeked of anger and disbelief.
 
I remember him talking about that on the Joe Rogan podcast
He said it was his toughest fight in his career because he had not been training wrestling as regularly as he use to and then went on to talk about the importance of training regularly in something that you already good at in order to keep that level up

I think it was to do with him attempting stand up training as a reason why he wasn't focusing on his wrestling training as much since he is so good at one area and the other areas could use improvements??
I don't buy it. If he wasn't training wrestling, what was he training? From that fight and all the other ones after it I'm confident it wasn't stand up
 
I remember the fight being very close and scoring it 48-47 for Askren. That said, far too boring to re-watch and re-score.
 
I don't buy it. If he wasn't training wrestling, what was he training? From that fight and all the other ones after it I'm confident it wasn't stand up
It's literally in what I said
At that time he didn't train wrestling as much because I think he was focusing on being more rounded for that fight practising striking as well and in order to do this it comes at the cost of giving up some wrestling training

And its safe to assume that once he realized that wrestling was his bread and butter and that maybe the striking wasnt for him he switched back to just wrestling and the ground game much more I'd assume
 

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