Deconstructing MMA Myths... [Part 17] - Askren´s Undefeated Record...

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Today: [USA MMA Scene]

MYTH: Askren´s undefeated record.


Note: this thread can be seen as an extension of these ones:

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-20-judges-mma-ideology.3862173/

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/


Indeed, I have to question one particular fight:

BEN ASKREN vs JAY HIERON.

Happened @ Bellator 56 [29/10/2011], for the Bellator WW Belt [Askren´s 1st defence]

Context:
Hieron has a wrestling background, but progressively became more of a striker.
Solid boxing, decent jab/combos.
Good Sprawls.
Hieron was 35 yrs old, realistically past his physical prime... He would retire 15 months later.
Was his 27th fight, while it was Askren´s 9th fight (27 yrs old)

Round 1:


> Toughest Round to score.
> All Askren´s TDs were stuffed, Hieron showcasin´some good sprawls...
> Askren was even actually countered & taken down after 1 TD attempt, & Hieron controlled him on the ground.
Ground Controle = 30s. [4m20>3mn50]
> Hieron had more efficient striking on the feet, cleaner striking, good use of the jab, good combos.
> Askren´s striking was rather primitive, even 'unprofessional' at times, as he would punch
and then lazily turn his back...
He still had a couple of punches & 1 knee off the clinch, as efficient strikes.

10-9 Hieron.

Round 2:

> Askren got the early TD. Good Ground Control, but bureaucratic Ground Game:
lack of good transitions, no real submission attempts, limited damage during the GNP,
some good knees.
Ground Control = 4mn25

10-9 Askren.

Round 3:

> Hieron outboxin´ & pickin´ him apart, good leg kicks too.
> Askren only scored a slap on the feet.
> Askren only had 1 TD attempt, easily stuffed.
> Then Askren got the body lock, and scored a good TD, @ 2mn50
Ground Control = 1mn05. [2m50>1mn45]
> But no legit damage done during the GNP.
> Askren showcased limited transitions again, hardly in position to pass guard.
> Askren got reversed.
> Askren scored a right hand off the clinch while getting up.
> Last 90 sec: Hieron scored 1 leg kick, Askren 1 body kick.
Overall, Hieron slightly outboxin´him, with more effective strikes.

10-9 Hieron.

Round 4:

> Hieron outboxing him in the 1st 30 sec.
> Askren got the TD, got his back & started to GNP, mostly with good knees to the body.
Ground Control = 2mn39 [4mn22>1mn43]
> @ 1mn43, Hieron rolled & escaped.
> Last 100 sec: Hieron completely outboxed him, with jabs and countering with right hook.
> Last 15 sec: Hieron suffered an eye poke.

10-9 Askren.

Round 5:

> Askren got no TDs.
> Hieron completely outboxed him. Scored with some leg kicks too.
> Hieron even dropped him with a spinning shit kick.
> Hieron began tauntin´& kickin´ him.

10-9 Hieron.


VERDICT:

> Jimmy Smith had it 48-47 Hieron.

> 2 Judges had it 48-47 Askren, while the 3rd one had it 48-47 Hieron.

> IMO it was a 48-47 Hieron.


http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-24-carlson´s-silence.3879035/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-14-mousasi-flukes.3836617/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-1-2.3844333/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-2-2.3844507/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-16-siamese-brothers-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-25-the-wild-wild-east.3886295/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-groovy-paradox.3893619/page-3#post-148236621
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-28-deaf-ears.3907767/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-penn-the-frontrunner.3925599/#post-149993595
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-30-mma´s-buster-douglas.3935185/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-fights-start-from-standing-position.3808087/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...tion-of-submission-defence-grappling.3803333/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-striking.3831261/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-2-hunto´s-atomicbutt-drop.3735841/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-1-hoyce-his-gi-ufc-1.3734725/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...hs-part-8-mma-cans-the-unsung-heroes.3822123/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-10-b4-after-usada.3826221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-11-fighters´evolution.3827221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-17-askren´s-undefeated-record.3855315/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-18-the-genesis-of-ufc-1´s-roster.3855847/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-20-judges-mma-ideology.3862173/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ma-evolution-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...part-22-the-avenged-losses-narrative.3874257/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-32-where´s-dat-suplex-monster.3954795/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-33-the-undisputed-goat.3961171/
 
Last edited:
Today:

MYTH: Askren´s undefeated record.


Indeed, I have to question one particular fight:

BEN ASKREN vs JAY HIERON.

Happened @ Bellator 56 [29/10/2011], for the Bellator WW Belt [Askren´s 1st defence]

Context:
Hieron has a wrestling background, but progressively became more of a striker.
Solid boxing, decent jab/combos.
Good Sprawls.

Round 1:

> Toughest Round to score.
> All Askren´s TDs were stuffed, Hieron showcasin´some good sprawls...
> Askren was even actually countered & taken down after 1 TD attempt, & Hieron controlled him on the ground.
Ground Controle = 30s. [4m20>3mn50]
> Hieron had more efficient striking on the feet, cleaner striking, good use of the jab, good combos.
> Askren´s striking was rather primitive, even 'unprofessional' at times, as he would punch
and then lazily turn his back...
He still had a couple of punches & 1 knee off the clinch, as efficient strikes.

10-9 Hieron.

Round 2:

> Askren got the early TD. Good Ground Control, but bureaucratic Ground Game:
lack of good transitions, no real submission attempts, limited damage during the GNP,
some good knees.
Ground Control = 4mn25

10-9 Askren.

Round 3:

> Hieron outboxin´ & pickin´ him apart, good leg kicks too.
> Askren only scored a slap on the feet.
> Askren only had 1 TD attempt, easily stuffed.
> Then Askren got the body lock, and scored a good TD, @ 2mn50
Ground Control = 55 sec. [2m50>1mn45]
> But no legit damage done during the GNP.
> Askren showcased limited transitions again, hardly in position to pass guard.
> Askren got reversed.
> Askren scored a right hand off the clinch while getting up.
> Last 90 sec: Hieron score 1 leg kick, Askren 1 body kick.
Overall, Hieron slightly outboxin´him, with more effective strikes.

10-9 Hieron.

Round 4:

> Hieron outboxing him in the 1st 30 sec.
> Askren got the TD, got his back & started to GNP, mostly with good knees to the body.
Ground Control = 2mn39 [4mn22>1mn43]
> @ 1mn43, Hieron rolled & escaped.
> Last 100 sec: Hieron completely outboxed him, with jabs and countering with right hook.
> Last 15 sec: Hieron suffered an eye poke.

10-9 Askren.

Round 5:

> Askren got no TDs.
> Hieron completely outboxed him. Scored with some leg kicks too.
> Hieron even dropped him with a spinning shit kick.
> Hieron began tauntin´& kickin´ him.

10-9 Hieron.


VERDICT:

> Jimmy Smith had it 48-47 Hieron.

> 2 Judges had it 48-47 Askren, while the 3rd one had it 48-47 Hieron.

> IMO it was a 48-47 Hieron.

Exactly the way I saw it.
 
Didnt read. War askren.
 
I remember him talking about that on the Joe Rogan podcast
He said it was his toughest fight in his career because he had not been training wrestling as regularly as he use to and then went on to talk about the importance of training regularly in something that you already good at in order to keep that level up

I think it was to do with him attempting stand up training as a reason why he wasn't focusing on his wrestling training as much since he is so good at one area and the other areas could use improvements??
 
I remember him talking about that on the Joe Rogan podcast
He said it was his toughest fight in his career because he had not been training wrestling as regularly as he use to and then went on to talk about the importance of training regularly in something that you already good at in order to keep that level up

I think it was to do with him attempting stand up training as a reason why he wasn't focusing on his wrestling training as much since he is so good at one area and the other areas could use improvements??
Indeed some glaring holes: wont even talk about his striking, but on the ground: limited transitions, inefficient GNP.
 
I agree. If you were to put one blemish on his record, it'd have to be this fight.

Though to be fair, Heiron was the far more experienced fighter at the time, and Askren has improved leaps and bounds since then.
 
I remember him talking about that on the Joe Rogan podcast
He said it was his toughest fight in his career because he had not been training wrestling as regularly as he use to and then went on to talk about the importance of training regularly in something that you already good at in order to keep that level up

I think it was to do with him attempting stand up training as a reason why he wasn't focusing on his wrestling training as much since he is so good at one area and the other areas could use improvements??
This has been an issue for other wrestlers sometimes and there is real dificullty in finding a balance. Saul soliz obvs knew big kev randleman had explosive ko power,but kev ultimatley decided to focus on his wrestling,feeling he was always too gunshy amd tentative on the feet,which is a shame cos the guy crackalacks like manhoef when he hits you.
 
I agree. If you were to put one blemish on his record, it'd have to be this fight.

Though to be fair, Heiron was the far more experienced fighter at the time, and Askren has improved leaps and bounds since then.
Hieron was 35 yrs old, realistically past his physical prime... He would retire 15 months later.
 
I wonder what I was doin´in the OP....
Meant like a technical breakdown as to why you think that. For eg, fighter A goes for a 2 (rear straight) before shooting for a takedown in order to get the opponent's hands up because if they are up it's harder to sprawl etc.
not just one fight
 
Meant like a technical breakdown as to why you think that. For eg, fighter A goes for a 2 (rear straight) before shooting for a takedown in order to get the opponent's hands up because if they are up it's harder to sprawl etc.
not just one fight
holy shh...

book.gif
 
Like tibau beat khabib
The Thibau [sad] Affair:

3 Rounds, 15 mns...4mn48 of pure Wall&Stall...
7 Wall&Stall situations, but only 2 Yamazaki´s interferences...
ONE complete Round lost, sadly... Nobody won that fight, tbh...
 
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