Deconstructing MMA Myths... [Part 17] - Askren´s Undefeated Record...

 
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gono btw said:
The Thibau [sad] Affair:

3 Rounds, 15 mns...4mn48 of pure Wall&Stall...
7 Wall&Stall situations, but only 2 Yamazaki´s interferences...
ONE complete Round lost, sadly... Nobody won that fight, tbh...
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To be fair you could give the edge to Khabib for agression, ring generalship and damage. He cut Tibau over the eye with a strike early in the fight.
 
ANIM4L said:
To be fair you could give the edge to Khabib for agression, ring generalship and damage. He cut Tibau over the eye with a strike early in the fight.
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yeah... you obviously have to watch this fight like a Professional Judge, and count every [rare] blow...

Not sure if it´s worth it...
 
gono btw said:
yeah... you obviously have to watch this fight like a Professional Judge, and count every blow...

Not sure if it´s worth it...
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It was brutal to rewatch. I did it for the lead up to his fight with McGregor. Actually counted every strike, LOL. IIRC Tibau had slightly more overall but Khabib landed better. Could have easily gone either way or been a draw but I think the right judgement was given.
 
ANIM4L said:
It was brutal to rewatch. I did it for the lead up to his fight with McGregor. Actually counted every strike, LOL. IIRC Tibau had slightly more overall but Khabib landed better. Could have easily gone either way or been a draw but I think the right judgement was given.
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In Pride or Rings, would have been a Draw, for sure...
 
gono btw said:
Today:

MYTH: Askren´s undefeated record.

Indeed, I have to question one particular fight:

BEN ASKREN vs JAY HIERON.

Happened @ Bellator 56 [29/10/2011], for the Bellator WW Belt [Askren´s 1st defence]

Context:
Hieron has a wrestling background, but progressively became more of a striker.
Solid boxing, decent jab/combos.
Good Sprawls.
Hieron was 35 yrs old, realistically past his physical prime... He would retire 15 months later.
Was his 27th fight, while it was Askren´s 9th fight (27 yrs old)

Round 1:

> Toughest Round to score.
> All Askren´s TDs were stuffed, Hieron showcasin´some good sprawls...
> Askren was even actually countered & taken down after 1 TD attempt, & Hieron controlled him on the ground.
Ground Controle = 30s. [4m20>3mn50]
> Hieron had more efficient striking on the feet, cleaner striking, good use of the jab, good combos.
> Askren´s striking was rather primitive, even 'unprofessional' at times, as he would punch
and then lazily turn his back...
He still had a couple of punches & 1 knee off the clinch, as efficient strikes.

10-9 Hieron.

Round 2:

> Askren got the early TD. Good Ground Control, but bureaucratic Ground Game:
lack of good transitions, no real submission attempts, limited damage during the GNP,
some good knees.
Ground Control = 4mn25

10-9 Askren.

Round 3:

> Hieron outboxin´ & pickin´ him apart, good leg kicks too.
> Askren only scored a slap on the feet.
> Askren only had 1 TD attempt, easily stuffed.
> Then Askren got the body lock, and scored a good TD, @ 2mn50
Ground Control = 1mn05. [2m50>1mn45]
> But no legit damage done during the GNP.
> Askren showcased limited transitions again, hardly in position to pass guard.
> Askren got reversed.
> Askren scored a right hand off the clinch while getting up.
> Last 90 sec: Hieron scored 1 leg kick, Askren 1 body kick.
Overall, Hieron slightly outboxin´him, with more effective strikes.

10-9 Hieron.

Round 4:

> Hieron outboxing him in the 1st 30 sec.
> Askren got the TD, got his back & started to GNP, mostly with good knees to the body.
Ground Control = 2mn39 [4mn22>1mn43]
> @ 1mn43, Hieron rolled & escaped.
> Last 100 sec: Hieron completely outboxed him, with jabs and countering with right hook.
> Last 15 sec: Hieron suffered an eye poke.

10-9 Askren.

Round 5:

> Askren got no TDs.
> Hieron completely outboxed him. Scored with some leg kicks too.
> Hieron even dropped him with a spinning shit kick.
> Hieron began tauntin´& kickin´ him.

10-9 Hieron.


VERDICT:

> Jimmy Smith had it 48-47 Hieron.

> 2 Judges had it 48-47 Askren, while the 3rd one had it 48-47 Hieron.

> IMO it was a 48-47 Hieron.
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Very good.
 
I'm fairly sure his official record has no losses, so I'm a little confused about how that would actually be a myth.
 
gono btw said:
Today:

MYTH: Askren´s undefeated record.

Indeed, I have to question one particular fight:

BEN ASKREN vs JAY HIERON.

Happened @ Bellator 56 [29/10/2011], for the Bellator WW Belt [Askren´s 1st defence]

Context:
Hieron has a wrestling background, but progressively became more of a striker.
Solid boxing, decent jab/combos.
Good Sprawls.
Hieron was 35 yrs old, realistically past his physical prime... He would retire 15 months later.
Was his 27th fight, while it was Askren´s 9th fight (27 yrs old)

Round 1:

> Toughest Round to score.
> All Askren´s TDs were stuffed, Hieron showcasin´some good sprawls...
> Askren was even actually countered & taken down after 1 TD attempt, & Hieron controlled him on the ground.
Ground Controle = 30s. [4m20>3mn50]
> Hieron had more efficient striking on the feet, cleaner striking, good use of the jab, good combos.
> Askren´s striking was rather primitive, even 'unprofessional' at times, as he would punch
and then lazily turn his back...
He still had a couple of punches & 1 knee off the clinch, as efficient strikes.

10-9 Hieron.

Round 2:

> Askren got the early TD. Good Ground Control, but bureaucratic Ground Game:
lack of good transitions, no real submission attempts, limited damage during the GNP,
some good knees.
Ground Control = 4mn25

10-9 Askren.

Round 3:

> Hieron outboxin´ & pickin´ him apart, good leg kicks too.
> Askren only scored a slap on the feet.
> Askren only had 1 TD attempt, easily stuffed.
> Then Askren got the body lock, and scored a good TD, @ 2mn50
Ground Control = 1mn05. [2m50>1mn45]
> But no legit damage done during the GNP.
> Askren showcased limited transitions again, hardly in position to pass guard.
> Askren got reversed.
> Askren scored a right hand off the clinch while getting up.
> Last 90 sec: Hieron scored 1 leg kick, Askren 1 body kick.
Overall, Hieron slightly outboxin´him, with more effective strikes.

10-9 Hieron.

Round 4:

> Hieron outboxing him in the 1st 30 sec.
> Askren got the TD, got his back & started to GNP, mostly with good knees to the body.
Ground Control = 2mn39 [4mn22>1mn43]
> @ 1mn43, Hieron rolled & escaped.
> Last 100 sec: Hieron completely outboxed him, with jabs and countering with right hook.
> Last 15 sec: Hieron suffered an eye poke.

10-9 Askren.

Round 5:

> Askren got no TDs.
> Hieron completely outboxed him. Scored with some leg kicks too.
> Hieron even dropped him with a spinning shit kick.
> Hieron began tauntin´& kickin´ him.

10-9 Hieron.


VERDICT:

> Jimmy Smith had it 48-47 Hieron.

> 2 Judges had it 48-47 Askren, while the 3rd one had it 48-47 Hieron.

> IMO it was a 48-47 Hieron.
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I enjoy these "deconstructing MMA myths" threads of yours but I'm pretty sure we discussed this earlier. Almost every fighter has a decision win or two on there record that is surrounded with controversy and different opinions on whether or not they should have been awarded the victory but at the end of the day it is still on there record as a win and no matter how much debate there is surrounding this fight Askren is still officially undefeated as of this writing.

This is and will remain a fact, not a myth.
 
boss429 said:
I enjoy these "deconstructing MMA myths" threads of yours but I'm pretty sure we discussed this earlier. Almost every fighter has a decision win or two on there record that is surrounded with controversy and different opinions on whether or not they should have been awarded the victory but at the end of the day it is still on there record as a win and no matter how much debate there is surrounding this fight Askren is still officially undefeated as of this writing.

This is and will remain a fact, not a myth.
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Im tryin´to question these things...

For instance: SAKU GOAT had a draw vs Goes, but I can admit (and he himself admitted it) that he lost that fight...
 
Askren vs Hieron = Khabib vs Tibau

Both Askren and Khabib won...

Get over it!
 
gono btw said:
Im tryin´to question these things...

For instance: SAKU GOAT had a draw vs Goes, but I can admit (and he himself admitted it) that he lost that fight...
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Fair enough, kind of like Rampage vs Ninja.

To be fair though this has been questioned to death and no matter how many times the argument takes place or how compelling the argument against an Askren victory may be the zero on his record will still remain.

It's an exercise in futility. This is by far the least compelling and least likely to change anybody's opinion of all your "Myths" threads.

Those who saw it as an Askren win will still see it that way as will the one's who saw it as Heirons fight.

This one was a waste of your talents imo, I mean no disrespect by this though and hope you don't take it as such.
 
boss429 said:
Fair enough, kind of like Rampage vs Ninja.

To be fair though this has been questioned to death and no matter how many times the argument takes place or how compelling the argument against an Askren victory may be the zero on his record will still remain.

It's an exercise in futility. This is by far the least compelling and least likely to change anybody's opinion of all your "Myths" threads.

Those who saw it as an Askren win will still see it that way as will the one's who saw it as Heirons fight.

This one was a waste of your talents imo, I mean know offence by this though and hope you don't take it as such.
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Im more interested in showing the [hidden] controversy... I dont need to convince people, tbh...
 
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