Deadlifts and milkshakes

I don't think I'm experienced enough to talk about form and I definetly someone to say something about anyones depth. Anyways, I think on the second video your form looks good and I think the main point is that it feels good to you. Ben Rices butt shoots up sometimes too but it doesn't stop him from squatting mountains. You know what works for you or at least you know what to fix. Keep up the good work!
 
KidAlchemy said:
I don't think I'm experienced enough to talk about form and I definetly someone to say something about anyones depth. Anyways, I think on the second video your form looks good and I think the main point is that it feels good to you. Ben Rices butt shoots up sometimes too but it doesn't stop him from squatting mountains. You know what works for you or at least you know what to fix. Keep up the good work!
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Thanks, and that's exactly my point. I'm going to keep doing what works for me.

And I'd like to see someone tell Ben Rice he needs to lower the weight on HIS squat.
 
The people criticizing her squatting are idiots. If it was a guy squatting you'd all probably keep quiet, but since she's a girl you feel the need to come swooping in like a bunch of white knights. Not to mention most of you probably squat less than she does (some relatively, some absolutely).

You're squat looks fine. Your back angle stays pretty consistent throughout and if your doing a low bar squat with a wider stand you shouldn't be stark upright (the starting strength diagram you posted is a perfect example). You do tend to GM your squats as the weight gets heavier and you're deeper into the set, but everyone's technique suffers a bit when fatigue starts to set in. As long as your hitting PR's and getting white lighted when you compete who cares?
 
actually, Rice has pretty seriously questionable depth on his squatting. This is not an anomaly for him at all. See the famous world record debacle. Clearly high, he admitted it, and now he has a high-squatted world record.

I make it a point with my squatting to try to hit depths that people are not going to question. If that means lowering the weight, that means lowering the weight.
 
WitchCraft said:
I appreciate the feedback. I don't know if I'm just being stubborn or don't have an eye for my own form issues, but I don't see my back angle changing dramatically on most of my sets. The most recent videos were a 5RM so of course my form is not going to be perfect. And as I said in an earlier post, this is how I squat on all of my sets pretty much. I have long ass femurs and it's just not possible for me to squat ATG with an upright torso.

Also, just to clarify, most of those squats are to parallel (albeit one set that I completely got lazy with, all of those are embarrassingly high). The others are definitely not deep and I can't deny that, but they are to parallel. I'm a powerlifter, that's all I care about.



I'm squatting today. I'll try to take a video without the safety bars so I can do some screen shots. I tried to do it with the vids I have now, but it's hard to see with all of the equipment in the way.
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I'm not suggesting you need to be more upright, the opposite actually. If that's the way you are strongest, I'd like to see you embrace your inner goggins and put your back angle at the position you are strongest in right from the start. I think that would help keep the bar in a better position and be more efficient out of the hole.

I definitely disagree those squats are to depth. Here is a pic of the first rep from your video at the top of the page. I thought it, along with the next 2, were the deepest of the 15 on this page.

ScreenShot2014-02-05at10635PM_zps3610a1dc.jpg


The dot on the rack is where I think your hip crease needs to be, you can't see really clearly where exactly your hip is, but it's definitely higher than that dot. And if you look at dots on the bench, your video is clearly on a forgiving angle.

SteveX said:
The people criticizing her squatting are idiots. If it was a guy squatting you'd all probably keep quiet, but since she's a girl you feel the need to come swooping in like a bunch of white knights. Not to mention most of you probably squat less than she does (some relatively, some absolutely).

You're squat looks fine. Your back angle stays pretty consistent throughout and if your doing a low bar squat with a wider stand you shouldn't be stark upright (the starting strength diagram you posted is a perfect example). You do tend to GM your squats as the weight gets heavier and you're deeper into the set, but everyone's technique suffers a bit when fatigue starts to set in. As long as your hitting PR's and getting white lighted when you compete who cares?
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Lulz at us being the white knights.
 
Fighting Sprite said:
Lulz at us being the white knights.
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I realized the irony of my statement as I hit send. Still, the fact remains that you guys are being overly critical. As long as she hits depth in competition it doesn't matter that she's a bit high in training. Besides that, with the exception of the video where she is clearly high, the majority of squats are to depth with one or two being questionable at worst.
 
SteveX said:
I realized the irony of my statement as I hit send. Still, the fact remains that you guys are being overly critical. As long as she hits depth in competition it doesn't matter that she's a bit high in training. Besides that, with the exception of the video where she is clearly high, the majority of squats are to depth with one or two being questionable at worst.
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1) I don't see us as being overcritical, but that's probably just the way I am. I like getting critiques, and I've never been one to care about how much tact a person uses. I'm trying to help her get better, which, I assume, is why most people post logs.

2) It doesn't matter, but you can't deny that hitting your competition depth in training is much better for improving your competition squat. There are very few Joe Morrow's of the world.

3) See the picture above. It is very clear that her depth is not good enough.
 
1) I was pointing to you specifically. I understand criticism is necessary and beneficial if you want to get better. I think telling her that she'll get hurt unless she changes how she squats is a bit over the top though (again not pointing the finger at you here).

2) No I agree with you on this point

3) I'd prefer a better angle before I judged it. To me is looks like her hip crease is pretty much in line with her patella. It may be a tad high, but I've seen way worse squats get white lighted. I don't see your point about the bench though, so maybe I might agree if I understood what you were trying to get at.
 
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It's OK guys. I can take the heat! lol I'm not overly concerned about my depth or form, but I will consciously try to sink them a little deeper from now on.
 
SteveX said:
1) I was pointing to you specifically. I understand criticism is necessary and beneficial if you want to get better. I think telling her that she'll get hurt unless she changes how she squats is a bit over the top though (again not pointing the finger at you here).

2) No I agree with you on this point

3) I'd prefer a better angle before I judged it. To me is looks like her hip crease is pretty much in line with her patella. It may be a tad high, but I've seen way worse squats get white lighted. I don't see your point about the bench though, so maybe I might agree if I understood what you were trying to get at.
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I agree that throwing the "you're going to get injured if..." card can be really grating and not usually appropriate if you're trying to help someone out. Now, does squatting inefficiently mean you have an increase probability of being injured at some point? Yeah, it does. Some of the best strength athletes are the ones who are freaking neurotic about form.

That said, WC and I are both built with longass femurs in proportion to the rest of our bodies and it is HORRIBLE for squatting no matter what you do to try to work with it via form adjustment. I have taken up a fairly wide stance (not geared wide, but wider than a lot of people and definitely wider than WC uses) and that barely makes things easier for me. Let me go take a screencap of myself at the bottom of a squat warmup to illustrate the point I'm making here:

DhcrRuE.png


At the bottom of the movement my hips are FREAKING FAR AWAY from the bar because my femurs essentially put them there. There is nothing I can do to fix this, and even having a really wide stance won't do it. This is a really shitty position to have to come out of the hole from and it makes this movement a challenging one for me and WC--WC has it worse because she chooses to use a closer stance due to hip issues unless I am not remembering this correctly.

People who are built like us have to figure out a way to squat that keeps us from good morning-squatting the weight and it is really difficult to do so. Richard Hawthorne has developed incredible hip strength to help him drive out of the position pictured above; he has the same proportion issues that WC and I do. That said, I think I have the shortest torso proportionally of all three lifters and that makes this problem even suckier. Lowbar and constant drilling of the squat with an emphasis on propelling the movement with the hips first is my only hope for being anything better than a mediocre squatter at some point in my career. I think that this may be the solution ultimately for WC: doing whatever it takes to build the strength through the stance and bar position she chooses to take that will make it a certainty that her chest and her hips rise at the same time. It's a more efficient movement pattern at the squat and it will recruit the most muscle groups more equally than they may be being recruited right now. WC, I know whatever's going on may be working for you at the moment, but it's not an efficient way to move the weight and ultimately it's going to probably have you hitting a strength wall.

Also, I know someone up there said that it's normal to have some breakdown as you tire through a set. I agree. I also strive to stay in position as well as I can through an entire set. I will sacrifice bar speed to have this happen. It is ultimately my goal to minimize form breakdown whenever I can whatever the percentage of my max. The lilibridges are excellent evidence that this can be done, as well as a host of others. I have form breakdown in my lifts too, and it's my goal to minimize it. Expect that you can do something with excellence and build towards it.
 
thanks Janis. Us long femur folks have to stick together! I taped every single one of my sets today and will post it as soon as it's uploaded. I'm pretty sure the deeper I went, the more I GM it and my hip flexors are killing me now. I wonder if I've started to squat higher and higher to avoid hip pain without realizing it.
 
MatterOverMind said:
Did you do that bikini contest last year (October?)?
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I did one in May, but then skipped out on the one in October. The October event was a real NPC show and very expensive. In total, it would have been about $1,000 to enter, makeup, tanning, etc. and I wouldn't have placed most likely so I dropped out.

I will be doing one in May again. Not an official competition, but only $10 to enter so I'm in!
 
2/5/2014

Squat
bar x 5
95 x 5
115 x 5
135 x 3
155 x 3
165 x 5
165 x 5
165 x 5
165 x 5
165 x 5

Bench
bar x 10
65 x 5
85 x 5
95 x 3
105 x 1
107 x 5
107 x 5
107 x 5
107 x 3
107 x 3

Notes: Woke up with flu-like symptoms again. Sore throat, shivering/sweating, coughing, etc. Then as soon as I got out of bed, found out that my car had been towed. What a mess this morning was. Somehow I made it through the 5 x 5 squat feeling like absolute shit but I ran out of steam in the middle of benching. If I wake up feeling like this again, to the doctor I go!
 
Being sick sucks, but making your prescribed squats anyway feels awesome enough to be almost worth it.

Almost. Hope you feel better soon WC.
 
WitchCraft said:
thanks Janis. Us long femur folks have to stick together! I taped every single one of my sets today and will post it as soon as it's uploaded. I'm pretty sure the deeper I went, the more I GM it and my hip flexors are killing me now. I wonder if I've started to squat higher and higher to avoid hip pain without realizing it.
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That is a solid possibility! Also, dude, my hip flexors are constantly a problem for me. Constantly. It REALLY sucks. I suspect it has an impact on my deadlift because the lockout has to be made harder by such tight hip flexors. So freaking frustrating. If I ever come up with a solution to it I will let you know. Warming up on bench is sometimes rough because my flexors will be so tight from the day before and I have to crank my legs back so far (as you now do too). I seriously feel like a GRANNY with this stuff.
 
Babyeater said:
That is a solid possibility! Also, dude, my hip flexors are constantly a problem for me. Constantly. It REALLY sucks. I suspect it has an impact on my deadlift because the lockout has to be made harder by such tight hip flexors. So freaking frustrating. If I ever come up with a solution to it I will let you know. Warming up on bench is sometimes rough because my flexors will be so tight from the day before and I have to crank my legs back so far (as you now do too). I seriously feel like a GRANNY with this stuff.
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I have some serious hip flexor tightness as well. Luckily being in PT school and knowing a few practicing therapists means I can usually get some free soft tissue work on them (which is extremely painful since the iliopsoas are pretty deep).

When I don't have the benefit of someone to manually work on them up I found this lacrosse ball work from Kelly Starrett to be really helpful

maxresdefault.jpg


The lax ball is placed over the general area of the iliopsoas with the kettlebell on top. Then proceed as you would with any foam rolling/lax ball work. Find a hot spot, sit on it until it works itself out. You can also add some knee or hip flexion/extension when you find a tender spot, but it won't be comfortable at all.

This and the usual half-kneeling stretch focusing on keeping my pelvis neutral (or even slightly posteriorly tilted) have helped me a lot. Pretty much eliminated my pain while squatting.
 
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