Daniel Cormier Potential PED Maskers (.4/1 T/E) Discussion Thread

[mudrubble]

Yes I agree, Jones passed the tests so he's clean. However the tests are inadequate. So why aren't we allowed to discuss the test by using jones and DC's values as data? It's really not about jones at all, it's the whole package; the AC, the UFC, the cocaine, the t/e values, hormonal imbalances, not following of protocol, etc.

I don't hate jones dude, this argument is getting annoying. Also I'm not a racist. Can I discuss this stuff now?

I don't think I called you a racist, but I think you've brought it up twice, which is suspicious.

I don't disagree with open conversation about how the "whole package" can be improved. Not at all. I'm just saying, WHATEVER is discussed and decided should not be double jeopardy for any one fighter. If we're discussing things we'd like to see change, I'm all for that. But MOST of this thread is discussing things they'd like to see changed AND THEN RETROACTIVELY APPLIED SELECTIVELY TO THE LHW CHAMP.

That's my problem. It's not the discussion. It's the threat of unequal treatment by the AC. if it's all "future tense", I'm all for it. If anyone's saying to RETROACTIVELY single out Jones, as they've been saying, I'm all against.

 

[theheater]

So you don't trust WIKI as a source but you trust a proven liar? I don't see how Victor Conte is anymore credible then Wiki.

The guy is a liar and has proven time and time again he will do whatever he wants to further his own ambitions.

all conte has to gain through this is attention. if it turns out hes spouting bullshit it does him way more harm than good. conte doesnt make his money off of clicks like some sort of gossip site

conte also had a stable of athletes that have a proven track record of dominating sports while cheating and beating the tests. if you can help athletes cheat, succeed, and not get caught then your track record and expertise are likely more worthy than a lab that cant even figure out theyre not supposed to test for coc and dont understand that theyre not supposed to only inform the promotion of a positive coc result on the test they werent supposed to conduct and with results they werent going to take action with

 

[kflo]

thats the problem and thats why people get away with corrupt and sneaky shit

the ufc isnt and shouldnt be a part of this. yet somehow the lab feels perfectly comfortable telling the promotion and not the fighter about the results

i mean you get why having these lines blurred and the ufc's agenda is part of the corruption. just look at what the ufc did with this info. didnt tell anyone, then prepared what to do for 2 weeks on how to handle it, then sent jones to rehab and muzzled him immediately after the fight

that harmless little inappropriate relationship has allowed the ufc to plan, prepare, and execute and PR move for weeks ahead of public knowledge that has potentially allowed a bunch of things to be swept under the rug

these inappropriate situations can manifest itself in infinite ways. thats why the UFC doesnt regulate itself in the first place

How has any of that allowed anything to get swept under the rug?

Again, the only person who had the right to know his results is jones. Jones wasn't sent to rehab by the UFC. They may have discussed it. But jones ultimately went to rehab on his and his own advisors accord.

I don't know what jones knew, other than that he did coke prior to dec 4.

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

Why are you concluding the "expert" wasn't internal? You are writing your own narrative.

I may have misread the quotes, I get you.
However, if the expert was internal, why would they not say he got flagged on the first test, but do say that he popped for cocaine which he should not have even been tested for?

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

I don't think I called you a racist, but I think you've brought it up twice, which is suspicious.

I don't disagree with open conversation about how the "whole package" can be improved. Not at all. I'm just saying, WHATEVER is discussed and decided should not be double jeopardy for any one fighter. If we're discussing things we'd like to see change, I'm all for that. But MOST of this thread is discussing things they'd like to see changed AND THEN RETROACTIVELY APPLIED SELECTIVELY TO THE LHW CHAMP.

That's my problem. It's not the discussion. It's the threat of unequal treatment by the AC. if it's all "future tense", I'm all for it. If anyone's saying to RETROACTIVELY single out Jones, as they've been saying, I'm all against.

Sorry I've just been called a racist for so many times these few days, it's insane.
Disagree on your second point. If he was cheating then he should be punished, it doesn't matter who he is and if he's liked or hated.
The thing is the low T/E is very suspicious and the scientists that have defined the T/E > 4 range themselves say that a low T/E should be accounted for too, except that it's too expensive.

 

[theheater]

How has any of that allowed anything to get swept under the rug?

Again, the only person who had the right to know his results is jones. Jones wasn't sent to rehab by the UFC. They may have discussed it. But jones ultimately went to rehab on his and his own advisors accord.

I don't know what jones knew, other than that he did coke prior to dec 4.

we dont know what is or isnt swept under the rug. we dont fully understand what could or couldnt be swept under the rug. but the fact that the ufc wasnt supposed to be told but was demonstrates an innapropriate relationship. they were supposed to tell jones but didnt even feel the need to, they already told their pals at the UFC. this doesnt open a million doors to corruption?

jones was informed of the coc result by the ufc. theyre the ones who told him about the coc. jones was in rehab in less than 48 hours. think about the logistics. jones lives in new york with his kids, trains in new mexico, and fought in las vegas. in less than 48 hours (probably closer to 24) from a 5 round war jones is in a rehab center locked away and muzzled. the ufc who informed jones of his positive drug test after the fight also had knowledge of this positive test for weeks. do you really think they didnt consult with PR experts? do you really just believe all the coincidences and convenience of all these instances that all benefit the $$$ flowing? thats how corruption works bro. decisions and situations get handled in the best interest of $$$ not fairness, integrity, etc

 

[CardonaLJ**]

we dont know what is or isnt swept under the rug. we dont fully understand what could or couldnt be swept under the rug. but the fact that the ufc wasnt supposed to be told but was demonstrates an innapropriate relationship. they were supposed to tell jones but didnt even feel the need to, they already told their pals at the UFC. this doesnt open a million doors to corruption?

jones was informed of the coc result by the ufc. theyre the ones who told him about the coc. jones was in rehab in less than 48 hours. think about the logistics. jones lives in new york with his kids, trains in new mexico, and fought in las vegas. in less than 48 hours (probably closer to 24) from a 5 round war jones is in a rehab center locked away and muzzled. the ufc who informed jones of his positive drug test after the fight also had knowledge of this positive test for weeks. do you really think they didnt consult with PR experts? do you really just believe all the coincidences and convenience of all these instances that all benefit the $$$ flowing? thats how corruption works bro. decisions and situations get handled in the best interest of $$$ not fairness, integrity, etc

Off topic but why do u continue to use "coc" as cocaine when its actually coke.

 

[mudrubble]

Disagree on your second point. If he was cheating then he should be punished, it doesn't matter who he is and if he's liked or hated.

EDIT: I have no reason to believe you're racist right now and won't call you something I dislike so much without reason.

This is unequal treatment though. The rule now is "if you are outside these markers, we punish but if you are inside these markers we don't"

The rule is not "if you're cheating we punish". It's "If you are not within these ranges you're punished"

He's outside a range many can believe is natural, sure. But he's still within the range for non-punishment, like ALL THE OTHER FIGHTERS who have been in that range and not punished!

We can't apply a new rule to him: "if you're cheating you're punished" unless we apply it to all. To do that, they need to release these numbers in a table or spredsheet on every tested athlete let's say over the last calendar year.

THEN we can see who should be punished. We can't just apply an "if he's cheating" rule to Jones and an "if he is within these markers" rule to everyone else!!

Do you not agree he should comply with the SAME strictures as others who have been punished or not punished in the past with scores within the same ranges?

 

[kflo]

I may have misread the quotes, I get you.
However, if the expert was internal, why would they not say he got flagged on the first test, but do say that he popped for cocaine which he should not have even been tested for?

They released the results of the test, which included the coke result. They didn't "say" anything with the initial release.

 

[Jin Akutsu]

I know you're all eager to discuss it since you're reasonable sport's fans and not some hypocrites masking hatred towards Jones, right ?

RIGHT !?

"Bennett told MMAFighting.com that Cormier

 

[mudrubble]

Nice try TS. Thinly veiled Cormier hate thread. Provide more info.

I think that's EXACTLY the point he was making about what's going on in 200 threads about Jones! If ppl hated Cormier like they did Jones, you could bet we'd have WAAAAY more information, right down to his twitter timeline and people drinking coke around him and etc., etc.,

It looks ridiculous when it's not Jones, right?

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

EDIT: I have no reason to believe you're racist right now and won't call you something I dislike so much without reason.

This is unequal treatment though. The rule now is "if you are outside these markers, we punish but if you are inside these markers we don't"

The rule is not "if you're cheating we punish". It's "If you are not within these ranges you're punished"

He's outside a range many can believe is natural, sure. But he's still within the range for non-punishment, like ALL THE OTHER FIGHTERS who have been in that range and not punished!

We can't apply a new rule to him: "if you're cheating you're punished" unless we apply it to all. To do that, they need to release these numbers in a table or spredsheet on every tested athlete let's say over the last calendar year.

THEN we can see who should be punished. We can't just apply an "if he's cheating" rule to Jones and an "if he is within these markers" rule to everyone else!!

Do you not agree he should comply with the SAME strictures as others who have been punished or not punished in the past with scores within the same ranges?

Again with the racist stuff huh? I bet you're the type of guy that plays the race-card all the time, despicable.

Again, we're not just ''applying the new rule to him'', it would be applied to every fighter that would have failed under the new circumstances. Or do you think current drugtesting is perfect? Cause it's not, go read the documents if you've any understanding of chemistry.

You're making this about him, but the truth is it's about all fighters. We just have his (suspicious) values right now and not of other fighters. Bring us other drug testing forms with values (request them through NSAC) and we'll discuss them too.

 

[mudrubble]

Again with the racist stuff huh? I bet you're the type of guy that plays the race-card all the time, despicable.

Bryan, please tell me you're joking.

You brought up me thinking you're racist twice. I told you I never said that. You said others have. I made an EDIT, out of respect of your comment to say I would not do that.

And you say this?

Are you joking or did you fall on your head in between our last post and now??

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

I think that's EXACTLY the point he was making about what's going on in 200 threads about Jones! If ppl hated Cormier like they did Jones, you could bet we'd have WAAAAY more information, right down to his twitter timeline and people drinking coke around him and etc., etc.,

It looks ridiculous when it's not Jones, right?

Again missing the point.. bring us Cormier's T-value, E-value, Andro, Etio, etc so we can discuss them. If they're weird then you'll be seeing a 200page thread again, but we don't have them so we can't discuss it. We can't just go off on T/E of 0.4 without the other values.

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

Bryan, please tell me you're joking.

You brought up me thinking you're racist twice. I told you I never said that. You said others have. I made an EDIT, out of respect of your comment to say I would not do that.

And you say this?

Are you joking or did you fall on your head in between our last post and now??

Oke oke I apologize, I saw EDIT: and RACIST and was like not this again.

But are you getting my other point that it's not about singling out jones?

 

[IntelligenceQuo]

Again missing the point.. bring us Cormier's T-value, E-value, Andro, Etio, etc so we can discuss them. If they're weird then you'll be seeing a 200page thread again, but we don't have them so we can't discuss it. We can't just go off on T/E of 0.4 without the other values.

Who's your favorite fighter that jon Jones dominated?

 

[mudrubble]

Again with the racist stuff huh? I bet you're the type of guy that plays the race-card all the time, despicable.

Again, we're not just ''applying the new rule to him'', it would be applied to every fighter that would have failed under the new circumstances. Or do you think current drugtesting is perfect? Cause it's not, go read the documents if you've any understanding of chemistry.

You're making this about him, but the truth is it's about all fighters. We just have his (suspicious) values right now and not of other fighters. Bring us other drug testing forms with values (request them through NSAC) and we'll discuss them too.

If it's about all fighters, we need to also dig up the numbers for all fighters. If it's about going forward, it has to be applied going forward.

This happened in December. If we're making "new circumstances" they'd start when they're made and go forward. We wouldn't reach back and grab one guy only under the "new circumstances".

Either they release numbers for all tested MMA athletes over the last calendar year and we figure out who's suspicious, or they do it going forward.

But they can't do it going forward except for Jon Jones, where we go backward.

This is actually really easy.

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

Who's your favorite fighter that jon Jones dominated?

Hmm I don't have too many 'favorite' fighters in the LHW division, but I'd put machida up there just cause he's so universally loved. I'm a fan of fighting though so I like to see jones perform too

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

If it's about all fighters, we need to also dig up the numbers for all fighters. If it's about going forward, it has to be applied going forward.

This happened in December. If we're making "new circumstances" they'd start when they're made and go forward. We wouldn't reach back and grab one guy only under the "new circumstances".

Either they release numbers for all tested MMA athletes over the last calendar year and we figure out who's suspicious, or they do it going forward.

But they can't do it going forward except for Jon Jones, where we go backward.

This is actually really easy.

Of course you're right. But who the hell is saying ''we want a new test but it's only for jon jones'? That would be insane.

 

[mudrubble]

Of course you're right. But who the hell is saying ''we want a new test but it's only for jon jones'? That would be insane.

Most of the posts about punishment in this thread have spoken about punishing Jones if we scrutinize him more than others and consequently find out more about him than others. Just read through the thread.

Anyone talking about PUNISHMENT or CONSEQUENCES that all the other fighters who tested in this "allowable" range AVOIDED, is talking about singling Jones out.

If you're saying "the past is the past, but going FORWARD we should change it equally for everyone" I'm not opposed to it.

If you're saying "let's change it now but punish Jones for the test he passed last year retroactively" then we also need to pull numbers for all other fighters and do the same.

Do you agree?