Daniel Cormier Potential PED Maskers (.4/1 T/E) Discussion Thread

[Bryan teh Retar]

Yea Look at the quote from Amygdala Victor says it. I did some research and that is not true.

On top of that Victor Conte provides numbers for DC which I can not find anywhere else. No articles mention the amount of test in DC's sample on the ratios.

Look up the word negative feedback before you start citing wikipedia as your source. T and E are formed in parallel and they are formed through the same big pathway, from the same precursors (cholesterol). Just cause conte is simplifying his arguments for people that do not understand hormonal balances, doesn't mean that he's wrong.

edit: I agree with you that it's very weird Conte has the DC values. It could be that he has a T value for DC from sometime ago and used it in combination with his T/E ratio to determine the numbers.

 

[theheater]

Lol at let jones fight.

They were released after the fight per regular protocol, no?

But you are basically calling her an unethical liar.

i mean my info on protocols comes from the internet but my understanding is that the lab deals with the commission and the fighter, not the promotion. according to dana the ufc knew the results and jones didnt until after the fight. the public didnt know the results until after the fight

also its pretty obvious this lab fucked up with the coc tests. not only were they not supposed to be conducted but if they werent supposed to be conducted and they werent going to do anything with the results then why were they included in this report that nobody got to see or talked about until after the fight

oh thats right, every single strange occurance and how its handled lends itself favorable to having the fight take place with no promotional hiccups. as a fan im glad there was no interuption but thats not a lab or the NSAC's role

there were procedure fuck ups from the lab. whats even more concerning is that it was all handled like they work tightly with the ufc behind the scenes that they once again broke procedure and informed the promotion not the fighter. this is obviously just based on whats being reported. either we are discovering a bunch of lies and deception from dana himself or we are discovering a total mishandling by the lab and NSAC. either way theres a bunch of bullshit that needs to be cleaned up

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

I thought they claimed that they did the CIR testing way back with the original test. I believe that's the claim. Not after a month.

There's a few problems with this;
Why did they tell us jones tested for cocaine, but not tell us that he failed the first test / got an atypical finding / that they're requesting the CI because it's ''suspicious''? They didn't tell us, they tell us later ''ooh because experts found it suspicious we have done the CI-test'', what experts were asking for the test within 14 days of sample collection on Dec. 4th? We didn't even know the results then.

 

[Boom_Ba_Ye]

Can you link to a source for the 30-60 ng/ml range?

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2012/268120/

"The normal levels of testosterone and epitestosterone in the urine of healthy male volunteers are 30

 

[kflo]

i mean my info on protocols comes from the internet but my understanding is that the lab deals with the commission and the fighter not the promotion. according to dana the ufc knew the results and jones didnt until after the fight. the public didnt know the results until after the fight

also its pretty obvious this lab fucked up with the coc tests. not only were they not supposed to be conducted but if they werent supposed to be conducted and they werent going to do anything with the results then why were they included in this report that nobody got to see or talked about until after the fight

oh thats right, every single strange occurance and how its handled lends itself favorable to having the fight take place with no promotional hiccups. as a fan im glad there was no interuption but thats not a lab or the NSAC's role

there were procedure fuck ups from the lab. whats even more concerning is that it was all handled like they work tightly with the ufc behind the scenes that they once again broke procedure and informed the promotion not the fighter. this is obviously just based on whats being reported. either we are discovering a bunch of lies and deception from dana himself or we are discovering a total mishandling by the lab and NSAC. either way theres a bunch of bullshit that needs to be cleaned up

The main known fuckup is doing the coke test to begin with, which did not and should not have had any impact on the fight itself. Telling jones or UFC I don't really care. Jones knew he did coke, and knew he could with no consequence.

 

[kflo]

There's a few problems with this;
Why did they tell us jones tested for cocaine, but not tell us that he failed the first test / got an atypical finding / that they're requesting the CI because it's ''suspicious''? They didn't tell us, they tell us later ''ooh because experts found it suspicious we have done the CI-test'', what experts were asking for the test within 14 days of sample collection on Dec. 4th? We didn't even know the results then.

Maybe because they do their own assessment of the results? He didn't "fail" any test.

 

[Boom_Ba_Ye]

Yeah 70 ng seems a bit high. That converts to 1154 ng/dl which is on the upper end of normal.

As far as I am aware, ng/ml is for urine. Blood would be ng/dl which has different ranges as far as I am aware. If someone could correct me on that.

 

[mudrubble]

There's a few problems with this;
Why did they tell us jones tested for cocaine, but not tell us that he failed the first test / got an atypical finding / that they're requesting the CI because it's ''suspicious''? They didn't tell us, they tell us later ''ooh because experts found it suspicious we have done the CI-test'', what experts were asking for the test within 14 days of sample collection on Dec. 4th? We didn't even know the results then.

Man, there are a few problems with everything the AC does as well as the UFC. As well as all major sports orgs. As well as all major orgs.

That is not a crisis we can solve in this little microcosm of Jones' results!

I'm not saying the ACs are clean! Not by a longshot! I'm saying that Jones has passed what he needed to and if they're dirty, they've been dirty a long time and he shouldn't pay for this individually.

I'm saying hold him to the SAME measure.

If we scrutinize him and not everyone, aren't we now only sending a signal to others that it's ok to do unless you're seriously hated by fans and will be scrutinized???

 

[Vektor]

can't you just visualize the OP shivering from all the passive aggressive impotent rage emanating from that post lol

 

[mmarcelo]

But you know what (I'm sure YOU do, but most refuse to accept it) they both passed the CURRENTLY APPLIED tests.

If we want to change the tests, going forward, then we should. But to single out one guy who passed the same tests that everyone else passed because we still have suspicions is unfair unless we recall all other tests and discuss their numbers as well. They all passed, so either we suspect them all and look further or we suspect none and look no further.

Exactly my point in creating this thread. Since Jones passed the test, we either use equal weights and question everyone or we be still. What you shouldn't do is pick and choose who you investigate based on your love/hate on a personal level.

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

Maybe because they do their own assessment of the results? He didn't "fail" any test.

You don't understand how the tests are done. go read the technical documents 'EAAS' and 'IRMS' on the WADA site. It's a two-step testing procedure. You get flagged for the first ? --> CIR-test.
Actually according to the WADA head, they requested the tests after 'experts' (READ: Conte, some dr on twitter, whole MMA community) found them suspicious? That would mean that would be after we got the results, but per protocol it's too late to do the testing by then. So what happened?

 

[kflo]

You don't understand how the tests are done. go read the technical documents 'EAAS' and 'IRMS' on the WADA site. It's a two-step testing procedure. You get flagged for the first ? --> CIR-test.
Actually according to the WADA head, they requested the tests after 'experts' (READ: Conte, some dr on twitter, whole MMA community) found them suspicious? That would mean that would be after we got the results, but per protocol it's too late to do the testing by then. So what happened?

Why are you concluding the "expert" wasn't internal? You are writing your own narrative.

 

[theheater]

The main known fuckup is doing the coke test to begin with, which did not and should not have had any impact on the fight itself. Telling jones or UFC I don't really care. Jones knew he did coke, and knew he could with no consequence.

thats the problem and thats why people get away with corrupt and sneaky shit

the ufc isnt and shouldnt be a part of this. yet somehow the lab feels perfectly comfortable telling the promotion and not the fighter about the results

i mean you get why having these lines blurred and the ufc's agenda is part of the corruption. just look at what the ufc did with this info. didnt tell anyone, then prepared what to do for 2 weeks on how to handle it, then sent jones to rehab and muzzled him immediately after the fight

that harmless little inappropriate relationship has allowed the ufc to plan, prepare, and execute and PR move for weeks ahead of public knowledge that has potentially allowed a bunch of things to be swept under the rug

these inappropriate situations can manifest itself in infinite ways. thats why the UFC doesnt regulate itself in the first place

 

[ironfist05]

this situation just keeps getting better and better

 

[method115]

Look up the word negative feedback before you start citing wikipedia as your source. T and E are formed in parallel and they are formed through the same big pathway, from the same precursors (cholesterol). Just cause conte is simplifying his arguments for people that do not understand hormonal balances, doesn't mean that he's wrong.

edit: I agree with you that it's very weird Conte has the DC values. It could be that he has a T value for DC from sometime ago and used it in combination with his T/E ratio to determine the numbers.

So you don't trust WIKI as a source but you trust a proven liar? I don't see how Victor Conte is anymore credible then Wiki.

The guy is a liar and has proven time and time again he will do whatever he wants to further his own ambitions.

 

[MCS]

restraining on eating habits while training hard, then weight cutting...

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

Man, there are a few problems with everything the AC does as well as the UFC. As well as all major sports orgs. As well as all major orgs.

That is not a crisis we can solve in this little microcosm of Jones' results!

I'm not saying the ACs are clean! Not by a longshot! I'm saying that Jones has passed what he needed to and if they're dirty, they've been dirty a long time and he shouldn't pay for this individually.

I'm saying hold him to the SAME measure.

If we scrutinize him and not everyone, aren't we now only sending a signal to others that it's ok to do unless you're seriously hated by fans and will be scrutinized???

Yes I agree, Jones passed the tests so he's clean. However the tests are inadequate. So why aren't we allowed to discuss the test by using jones and DC's values as data? It's really not about jones at all, it's the whole package; the AC, the UFC, the cocaine, the t/e values, hormonal imbalances, not following of protocol, etc.

I don't hate jones dude, this argument is getting annoying. Also I'm not a racist. Can I discuss this stuff now?

 

[waiguoren]

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2012/268120/

"The normal levels of testosterone and epitestosterone in the urine of healthy male volunteers are 30

 

[mmarcelo]

can't you just visualize the OP shivering from all the passive aggressive impotent rage emanating from that post lol

I'm not sure if I get what you meant, but it seems you misread where I'm coming from. I'm chill about it because I'm not a Jones fan. I'm simply tired of that childish witch hunt on the guy, hence the irony on the post (you must think that immaturely calling people retards is the peak of pontent rage, uh ? lol).

 

[Bryan teh Retar]

So you don't trust WIKI as a source but you trust a proven liar? I don't see how Victor Conte is anymore credible then Wiki.

The guy is a liar and has proven time and time again he will do whatever he wants to further his own ambitions.

He is a liar yes, but he isn't lying about the values being weird. I get you though he's kind of a scumbag, but what he's saying on twitter is legit. You can't lie in science.

Also you need to understand there's been veeeeery few research done on Epitestosterone, because it has no clinical use. However, homeostasis still applies. Supply and demand still apply, negative/positive feedback still apply, the way our body handles it's hormonal balances still apply. He's not bullshitting about this, eventhough it's getting him a lot of attention.