Cuban Boxing Fundamentals

SandisLL said:
Btw, what Karate tutelage on 70 ies this boxing trainer had?
So called Касянов or under Щтурмин or some internal groups?
One from these were boxer before started with this soviet karate.
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If I remember correctly, Grieg said that he trained with Kasyanov (who was a master of sport in boxing), but he himself switched to boxing after karate, not during training, after an army or just before (in our country army service is obligatory for every man who is healthy enough and is 18 y.o.:-), but athletes with high sports grades/masters of sport/candidates often serves in so-called sport companies, where they train more than do soldiering). Kasyanov's school did not have any elements from boxing, btw, except special attention for physical toughness.
 
Dexter said:
Well, Lomachenkos aren't russians - they are ukranians :). And their distinctive style is a HUGE DEVELOPMENT over soviet boxing school, nice blend of old and modern. 'Cause, to be honest one hundred percent, Soviet boxing was perfect for amateur fights 3*3, not pro-bouts 8-10-12*3.

For entertainment purposes only ;-) - one of the first meetings of Soviet karateka with Soviet boxers:

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Haha, I know they're Ukrainian, that was a testament to the voluntary ignorance of the average trainer here. To them it's still all one thing.
 
These karatekas doesn't looks like karatekas. Poor boxer, they were allowed kick a boxer plus no gloves....
Their stances looked like these used in point sparrings where scoring based mainly for semicontact kicks.
 
Dexter said:
This guy is very similar to @Sinister :) as a boxing researcher and innovator. He was a karate "pro"-fighter in 70-80s in USSR, and in boxing his level was a master of sport candidate. Travelled a lot around the globe: US, Germany, Spain, Thai, etc. IIRC, trained in Gleason's in NY. Now runs a small boxing gym in Moscow.

His useful videos on soviet/international boxing) :

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/samtren.russia/
Youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmJk2JDqnOK66izYUStXARg

Examples:















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Fantastic! This is the stuff that I love to see!
 
@Dexter
Thanks for all your posts.
There seems to be so many coaches with different pedigrees in Russia. So Frolov is a well-known coach or he is one of the many good coaches that do their thing in relative obscurity?
 
kenji goh said:
@Dexter
Thanks for all your posts.
There seems to be so many coaches with different pedigrees in Russia. So Frolov is a well-known coach or he is one of the many good coaches that do their thing in relative obscurity?
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Among the specialists Frolov is quite known. But, in the case of Russia, it is easier to say that we have several regions in which boxing is developed most. The best educated trainers with a large number of trained competing fighters are concentrated in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Novosibirsk and some others. For example, Isaev works near Petersburg, Frolov in Moscow, etc. In addition, Moscow and St. Petersburg have the highest salaries in the country, so people want to live and work in these areas.
To my regret, I must add that at the moment, the popularity of amateur boxing among young people is on the decline, most seek mixed martial arts (kudo, combat sambo and others). But among older people, often not previously engaged in combat sports, there is a real surge in interest in boxing training for self-defence and as a replacement for fitness. So the gyms are full.
 
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@Dexter More importantly, why aren't you training at Frolov Boxing School right now? That place seems like boxing heaven. I'd totally move to Moscow just to train there if I lived in Russia.
 
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Dexter said:
Greetings, colleagues!

Comrade Dexter here :). I am from the Russian Federation (in boxing since 2000, all of my trainers are soviet old-school) and with great interest’ve read this topic, ‘cause at our mma-forums we also often discuss boxing in the US, UK, Mexico. Stealing some drills, discarding what is useless in our opinion…
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I loved reading all the posts you have made so far. I am curious to know what boxing trainers (and drills) from the 3 countries you named and other non soviet linked countries you hold in high regard. Maybe if you have more questions about those systems some of the more knowledable posters could answer some your questions.
 
StopDucking said:
@Dexter More importantly, why aren't you training at Frolov Boxing School right now? That place seems like boxing heaven. I'd totally move to Moscow just to train there if I lived in Russia.
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1. Why exactly Frolov :)? We still have hundreds of old trainers preparing amateur fighters by the Soviet school standards, each with their own preferences and style. For example, one of my trainers:



Unfortunately, when this generation leaves, it will be replaced by people of a completely different level.

2. I am not a professional boxer, it's just my looooong time hobby. I competed as a low-level amateur (in 63,5 kg category) when i was a student, but now i'm 38 and 80 kg and train only 3 times a week.

RabbitPunch36 said:
I loved reading all the posts you have made so far. I am curious to know what boxing trainers (and drills) from the 3 countries you named and other non soviet linked countries you hold in high regard. Maybe if you have more questions about those systems some of the more knowledable posters could answer some your questions.
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Thanks, mate. I ocasionally stumbled by this thread and thought that i can help somehow with better understanding of soviet boxing.
I have a lot of questions, but some of them are completely childish, and some I have not yet formulated to the end, so this will wait :).

Regarding boxing schools in other countries...
I fell in love with boxing when I first read the short story of Jack London, "The Mexican" and watched а wonderful movie based on it:



So, from that moment on, I'm a big fan of mexican boxing (also, I really love Mexican food and this is the source of old inside jokes in my gym - guys say that in a past life I was Mexican). I grew up on fighters such as Duran, Barrera, Morales, JMM, Ricardo "El Finito" Lopez, JS Chavez-Sr., Johnny Tapia. My favourite coach is Ignacio Beristain.
UK: Chris Eubenk-Sr. and Nigel Benn. Fantastic dilogy. Also, Nigel Benn vs Gerald Mcclellan, real tragedy.
US: the hardest part, i like a lot of fighters - Arturo Gatti, Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Mike Tyson, David Tua, Roy Jones-Jr., Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Joe Louis, James Toney, Shane Mosley. Favourite coaches - Freddy Roach and Roberto Garcia.
Other: Miguel Cotto, Felix Trinidad, Wilfredo Gomez.

Of those who are fighting now, I follow Naoya Inoue, Nonito Donaire and Saul Alvarez, Vasyl Lomachenko, Manny Pacquiao and some others.
 
Dexter said:
1. Why exactly Frolov :)? We still have hundreds of old trainers preparing amateur fighters by the Soviet school standards, each with their own preferences and style.
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He's the best coach I've ever seen. Everything he teaches makes perfect sense and can be directly applied to bare-knuckle boxing. He's actually teaching fist-fighting, not pillow-fighting like most coaches in the West.

By the way guys, I've just stumbled upon this Russian MMA channel with a bunch of coaches teaching boxing, wrestling, conditioning and whatnot and Alexey Frolov happens to be one of them:





 
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StopDucking said:
He's the best coach I've ever seen. Everything he teaches makes perfect sense and can be directly applied to bare-knuckle boxing. He's actually teaching fist-fighting, not pillow-fighting like most coaches in the West.
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All Russian coaches who are old enough to be in USSR train in a manner similar to Frolov. ‘Cause they all were students in the same institutes/academies of Physical Culture and were taught equally. It’s the common base. But as I mentioned before, Soviet style has its weaknesses and drawbacks, and also, if you consider boxing as a means for self-defense, you must adapt it for the streets - toughening the fists, being ready for takedowns, clinch and kicks, weapons, several attackers and so on.
 
Dexter said:
All Russian coaches who are old enough to be in USSR train in a manner similar to Frolov. ‘Cause they all were students in the same institutes/academies of Physical Culture and were taught equally. It’s the common base. But as I mentioned before, Soviet style has its weaknesses and drawbacks, and also, if you consider boxing as a means for self-defense, you must adapt it for the streets - toughening the fists, being ready for takedowns, clinch and kicks, weapons, several attackers and so on.
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I agree the way the well taught soviets fight in mid to outer range is beautiful to me, but the infighting like you and Sinister have mentioned looks very crude and the posture and positioning look very meek and passive.
 
RabbitPunch36 said:
@Dexter definitely look up all the sinister threads on sherdog like https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/positioning-and-what-it-means-to-you-pt-1.2812983/ if you haven't already and he has a youtube channel https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCCNVdHr-XEQSmqv-9WoGVng
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Man Im a baby compared to the OG's. Even the ones I vehemently disagree with. You could imagine my apprehension when one of my first fighters fought a kid taught by Jeff Mayweather.

The program I'm building is still in its adolescence. I brought just enough guys to the National level for them to turn into divas and become convinced they know everything better than me.

The next crop will be truly impressive. Those other ones just LOOKED impressive
 
It's also a common occurrence to the pro level for fighters to change trainers that put time on them. It happens to the best of trainers as well.

Manny blamed Roach for the Horn mess and didn't even pay him. They are back together now.
Timothy Bradley ditched his long time coach to hire Teddy Atlas and look worse than ever in his third fight with Manny.
Hopkins left Fisher over a monetary dispute.

Even David Haney, he hardly managed to become known and if I am not mistaken, he has ditched friggin Floyd Sr of all people, a couple of times already.
It will always happen I guess, but it must be one of the things that a trainer never gets used to.
 
kenji goh said:
It's also a common occurrence to the pro level for fighters to change trainers that put time on them. It happens to the best of trainers as well.

Manny blamed Roach for the Horn mess and didn't even pay him. They are back together now.
Timothy Bradley ditched his long time coach to hire Teddy Atlas and look worse than ever in his third fight with Manny.
Hopkins left Fisher over a monetary dispute.

Even David Haney, he hardly managed to become known and if I am not mistaken, he has ditched friggin Floyd Sr of all people, a couple of times already.
It will always happen I guess, but it must be one of the things that a trainer never gets used to.
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The only trainers who don't get used to it are ones who attach their goals to the fighter's accomplishments. I learned over the last 2 years to divorce myself from that. Now I look at it like doing time in Prison. I know it sounds weird but bear with me. These kids, their goal is about getting out, right? They wanna get their respect, confidence, credibility, make some phat cash, and get out. Even though most of them have no real idea what to do after. Well me? I'm a lifer. Their lil 10 years doesnt mean dick to me. Any one or five of them could win World titles as amateurs or pros, Monday morning I'm back in the gym.

I've given my life to this, guys like us dont get out. So my goal has nothing to do with that. My goals are about building a program that churns out fighters strong enough to get their goals, or matures people so they move upward and onward in life. And I have some goals for improving the entire Sport, and my Gym. My mind isnt anywhere else aside from my Family.
 
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