International Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's Ambitious Quest to Modernize Saudi Arabia

Asia times had a different take on this. They said the military is going to remove MBS.

You actually made another thread on this subject based on that opinion piece? Why not go for one of many original topics that the WR hasn't had yet? o_O

Here's my opinion: The Saudi military is firmly under MBS' control, they ain't gonna do jack.
 
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Op/Ed: Saudi Prince's Revolution Is the Real Arab Spring
The West, like Israel, should welcome radical change, so long as he doesn't start a war with Iran.
by Zev Chafets| November 9, 2017

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When Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia rounded up 500-head of royals and billionaires last weekend and tossed them into luxury confinement, it was more than just a power grab by a young man in a hurry. It was a revolution. But of what kind?

Faisal J. Abbas, the editor of the Arab News, the English-language daily that normally speaks for the government, provided an answer of sorts from the Saudi perspective. “With all due respect to the pundits out there, 'experts' analyzing Saudi Arabia in previous decades had it too easy," he wrote on Tuesday. "We need to understand that the days when things took too long to happen -- if they happened at all -- are forever gone. The exciting part is that thanks to the ambitious reforms being implemented … we are finally living in a country where anything can happen.”

Muhammed, known as MBS, is 32 years old. He looks like a storybook Arabian prince and he talks like a progressive. He says he plans to liberalize and modernize his sclerotic society, expand the civil rights of women, reduce the economic power of the Saudi fossil fuel industry, and loosen the grip of the 5,000-member royal cousins club that has bled the country dry for generations.

Not only that: The prince also promises to transform Saudi Islam into a more tolerant brand of religion that does not fund extremist mosques in the West or underwrite jihadists in the Middle East.

Isn’t this the Arab leader we have been waiting for?

Yet so far, there doesn’t seem to be much enthusiasm in world capitals. With the exception of U.S. President Donald Trump, who has tweeted his support, events in Riyadh have elicited mostly silence.

This is understandable. Sometimes bright young Arab revolutionaries turn out to be Anwar Sadat, whose radical vision brought peace between Egypt and Israel. More often, they are tyrannical like Gamal Abdul Nasser or murderous like Osama Bin Laden or hapless like the Egyptian yuppies in Cairo’s Tahrir Square in 2010. Let's hope the dismal outcomes of that so-called Arab Spring have taught gullible Westerners not to engage in wishful thinking.

Still, you have to admire the boldness of the young prince. He has made enemies of the Saudi aristocracy, its billionaire class and their foreign business partners, who will eventually be looking for revenge. He has also locked up some senior clerics. The Saud family has historically derived its status as the Protector of Mecca from its alliance with the ultra-conservative Wahhabi sect of Islam. The kingdom is full of young disciples who will not take kindly to the silencing of their jihadist preachers. (It's true, however, that the prince has shown a less enlightened penchant, cracking down on human-rights advocates and academics as well.)

The prince also faces a threat from Iran. This week, President Hassan Rouhani warned that a Saudi alliance with the U.S. and “Zionist regime” of Israel would be a “strategic mistake.” Since the U.S. is has been allied with the Saudis for decades, this sounded like a redundant warning.

It was not. Adding “Zionists” to the equation made it a death threat. Open collaboration with Israel by Arab heads of state is life-threatening. In the early 1950s, King Abdullah I of Jordan was assassinated in Jerusalem for allegedly talking peace. In 1981, after signing the deal with Israel, Sadat was shot to death by Islamic extremists at a military parade in Cairo. The next year, Bashir Gemayel, the president-elect of Lebanon, was blown to bits in Beirut, presumably by Syrian agents.

Like MBS, Gemayel was the scion of an aristocratic family, one that publicly allied himself with Israel. The Saudi crown prince is too young to remember Gemayel, but Saad Hariri -- who resigned as Lebanese prime minister over the weekend and is currently hiding in Saudi Arabia (or a nearby Gulf State) from Hezbollah assassins -- can fill him in on what happens to Arab leaders who get accused of philo-Semitism.

This dynamic, by the way, explains Israel’s silence over MBS's maneuverings. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is delighted by the emergence of a new Arab leader who shares his view of Iran. The last thing Bibi wants to do is get him shot.

Let's be optimistic. Suppose Prince Mohammed survives Iranian hitmen, the wrath of his cousins and the fiery opposition of jihadist clerics -- that he rises to the throne and moves to implement his domestic reforms. Granting women equal civil rights, permitting theaters and cinemas to open, tamping down the more inflammatory mosques, diversifying the economy -- it is, as Abbas writes, an exciting prospect.

But there remains the question of MBS’s wider ambitions. He has made it clear that he considers Iran a mortal enemy. It is equally clear that he wants to lead a Sunni Arab coalition that can take on Tehran and end its regional aggression. This is a worthy goal, but not realistic.

The crown prince is the commander in chief of the army. He knows that it is a third–rate fighting force, unable to defeat even Houthi militia bands in Yemen, let alone Iran and its allies. His father and previous kings have been elderly rulers, cautious and focused on self-preservation. The most impressive fighting force in the kingdom is the National Guard, whose main role is guarding the royal family. The Saudi style of warfare has been funding proxy armies, while the U.S. defends its borders.

Will MBS follow prudently in the footsteps of his predecessors? Or will he be seduced by dreams of restoring his family’s ancient warrior tradition and imposing Sunni primacy in the Muslim Middle East? I vote for option No. 1.

An energetic, liberalizing young king in Saudi Arabia would be a very good thing for the Middle East. He could be an important ally in the international war against Islamic terror, and a fine role model for other aspiring Arab revolutionaries. It would be a shame to waste this potential on half-baked military adventures. He needs to bring the Gulf into the modern world, not get bogged down in an Iranian Bay of Pigs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-09/saudi-prince-s-revolution-is-the-real-arab-spring
 
That article says the prince was deeply involved in the massive Saudi construction company Saudi Oger, which was created by the Harriri family of Lebanon. Now Saad Hariri just resigned as PM of Lebanon while visiting Saudi Arabia. Everyone took the resignation as action orderd by Salman and MBS.

Hariri claims his life is under threat from Iran and Hezbollah. But then all major Lebanese politicians' lives are always under some threat. And why would Iran and Hezbollah move against Saad when he has gone along with Hezbollah being in the Leb government, because he really couldn't do anything about Hezbollah .

Saudi Oger ceased operations this year after incurring massive debts. And they didn't pay their laborers, not an uncommon practice amongst the Gulf Arabs.

Sounds like Saudi is setting up Saad Hariri to be killed and laying the blame on Hezbollah. You hear it here first folks!

I never really looked into why he resigned but when I read the headline I immediately rolled my eyes, knowing that no one on the Middle East is giving up power based on principles. Made more sense when he said Hezbollah or Iran was going to kill him but still, I don't get why now and not before.

He resigned while he was in Saudi. People (Lebanese forums) are saying he took marching orders from Saudi. The Harriris have been Saudi shills for a long time, from Rafik Harriris time atleast.



Macron makes unscheduled trip to Saudi Arabia for talks with Crown Prince to urge 'stability' in Lebanon after Prime Minister's shock resignation

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French President Emmanuel Macron arrived in Riyadh for hastily scheduled talks with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman amid rising tensions between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

His visit comes after the shock resignation of Lebanon's Prime Minister Saad Hariri who made the announcement in a broadcast from Riyadh on Saturday.

Lebanon believes Hariri is held under house arrest in Saudi Arabia and that he was coerced into resigning by the Kingdom as as it seeks to hit back against Iran and its Lebanese Shi'ite ally Hezbollah.

Stunned Lebanese are convinced Saudi Arabia, Hariri's longtime ally, forced him out to effectively wreck the prime minister's delicate compromise government with Hezbollah.

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Saad Hariri declared his surprise resignation on Saturday from Riyadh


Iran and Saudi Arabia are locked in a power struggle for influence in Lebanon and France has close historical ties to the Middle Eastern country, which was once its colony.

President Macron said he had held informal contacts with Hariri, but there had been no request to transfer him to France.

Macron, on his debut visit to the Middle East, made the surprise announcement at a news conference in Dubai that he would meet with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

'It was decided to go on this visit to Riyadh to see the Crown Prince, first, it is in order to have a first meeting with him, but also to discuss regional questions, in particular Yemen and Lebanon, he said.

'I will also emphasize the importance of Lebanese stability and integrity.'

Officials in Lebanon are now reportedly planning to work with foreign states to secure the politician's return to the country in the latest twist in an extraordinary resignation.

'Lebanon is heading towards asking foreign and Arab states to put pressure on Saudi to release Prime Minister Saad al-Hariri,' said the official, who declined to be identified because the government had yet to declare the initiative.

The official said Hariri was still Lebanon's prime minister.

'Keeping Hariri with restricted freedom in Riyadh is an attack on Lebanese sovereignty. Our dignity is his dignity. We will work with (foreign) states to return him to Beirut.'

Saudi Arabia and Hariri aides have denied reports that he is under house arrest, but he has put out no statements himself denying his movements are being restricted.

Saudi Arabia says the Iran-backed group Hezbollah had 'hijacked' the political system in Lebanon.

In his resignation speech, Hariri attacked Iran and Hezbollah for sowing strife in Arab states and said he feared assassination.

Saad Hariri declared his surprise resignation on Saturday from Riyadh which fuelled beliefs he was coerced into standing down against his will.

His resignation has thrust Lebanon back onto the front line of the Middle East's most biting rivalry, pitting a mostly Sunni bloc led by Saudi Arabia and including the UAE against Shiite Iran and its allies.

Hariri made the surprise announcement in a pre-recorded message on a Saudi-owned TV station.

Last week, Saudi Minister for Gulf Affairs Thamer al-Sabhan predicted on Lebanon's MTV station that 'astonishing developments' were coming for Lebanon.

After Hariri's resignation, rumours spread in Lebanon that he was under house arrest in Saudi Arabia - especially after news broke over the weekend of arrests in the kingdom of dozens of Saudi princes, ministers and influential businessmen in a sweep purportedly over corruption.

Hezbollah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah, on Sunday accused Saudi Arabia of drafting Hariri's resignation letter and forcing him to read it on Saudi TV.

He even asked whether Hariri was being held against his will.

The daily Al-Akhbar, a harsh critic of Saudi Arabia's policies, ran a full-page photo of Hariri on its front page with the words: 'The hostage.'

Speculation continued to swirl despite the official Saudi Press Agency carrying photos Monday showing Hariri meeting with Saudi King Salman.

Hariri tweeted that he was 'honored to visit' the king in his office - and some of his supporters tweeted back, telling him to take a selfie raising his left hand as a signal that he's OK.

Hariri, a dual Saudi-Lebanese citizen, has been facing financial difficulties recently as his business in Saudi Arabia suffers.

Earlier this year he closed his family's Oger construction firm that had made billions of dollars since his late father founded it in the 1970s.

Some experts on Lebanese politics are convinced Riyadh was behind the resignation.

Hilal Khashan, a political science professor at the American University of Beirut, said Hariri made 'many concessions' to his political rivals in order to become prime minister and would not have given up the position had it not been for Saudi pressure.

Joseph Bahout, a visiting scholar in Carnegie's Middle East Program, warned just last month that Saudi Arabia was seeking ways to compensate for the loss of Syria as a place where it could defy and bleed Iran.

'A renewed desire to reverse their regional fortunes could lead them to try regaining a foothold in Lebanon,' he wrote.

Saudi Arabia has denied any meddling.

The resignation throws Lebanon into potential turmoil, forcing the small nation to become a new front in the regional fight for supremacy between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

And this at a time when Iran and its allies are seen to have won the proxy war against Saudi-backed Sunni fighters in Syria.

Sunni-led Saudi Arabia, under Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, has been intensifying its confrontation with Shiite powerhouse Iran.

The two camps support rival sides in countries across the region, worsening conflicts in Yemen, Syria and elsewhere.

Lebanon has been on the verge of blowing up into full scale violence, and only compromise by Lebanese parties has stopped it doing so in a country still haunted by memories from its own 1975-1990 civil war.

Shiite Hezbollah dominates Lebanon, but it has sought not to provoke the Sunni community, which in turn has avoided crossing the guerrilla force.

The fear among some Lebanese now is that Saudi Arabia will upset that balance, trying to compensate for its losses in proxy wars elsewhere.

In Syria, Hezbollah and other Iranian-backed fighters allied with President Bashar Assad's forces have recaptured large areas and are working to secure a much-prized land corridor stretching from Tehran to the Mediterranean through Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.

By contrast, Saudi Arabia has been stuck in a fruitless war in Yemen against Iranian-backed Shiite rebels, and a Saudi bid to isolate Qatar has failed to achieve its goals.

Saudi fingerprints were seen all over Hariri's resignation on Saturday.

Unexpectedly, Hariri appeared on Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya TV in a recorded video from an undisclosed location, haltingly delivering a statement in which he accused Iran of meddling in Arab affairs and the Iran-backed Hezbollah of holding Lebanon hostage.

'Iran's arms in the region will be cut off,' he said, adding that he felt compelled to resign and that his life was endangered.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5067369/Emmanuel-Macron-hold-Lebanon-crisis-talks-Saudi.html
 
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MBS is a cunt. He wants to start war with Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon because the Saudi's terrorist proxies are getting destroyed by them.
 
I read comments from "liberals" that are against this man??

Surely, you should be supporting him as he is going to make Saudi Arabia more equal for women and more liberal??
 
To make things even crazier, Saudi Arabia intercepted a ballistic missile that flew over Riyadh today!

"Yemen's air force on Saturday targeted an airport in Saudi Arabia's capital with a ballistic missile, according to Yemen's Houthi-controlled Defense Ministry.

But the missile was intercepted over northeast Riyadh, the Saudi Ministry of Defense said in a statement carried on government-backed Al-Arabiya television."


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...capital/ar-AAurB2x?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp



 
Well this is getting interesting. I wonder how many millions more muslims Germany wants, Syrians weren't bad enough. Saudis are next lol.

So this is how Murica will democracyFy Iran, by having Sauds start the shit.
 
Well this is getting interesting. I wonder how many millions more muslims Germany wants, Syrians weren't bad enough. Saudis are next lol.

So this is how Murica will democracyFy Iran, by having Sauds start the shit.


You say that as thought the Saudis and the Iranians don't have historical grievances against each other going back hundreds of years.
 
This comming from a country with absolute monarchy regime.<36>
absolute monarchy is about the only way to get sweeping reforms done with out having to deal with assholes in some congress that dont want to change. I always felt an absolute monarchy, ruled by a benevolent king was the best. No partisan bullshit, no waiting years for shit to get done. It just gets done.
 

Why are you posting him? Why is the insane inefficiency of the congressional model a good thing? They get nothing done, and when they do, it is some half assed, poorly done compromise bill that just sucks. Why is that so good? Somes i just want shit done, and done right fucking now..
 
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