International Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's Ambitious Quest to Modernize Saudi Arabia

[Quipling]

Holy fucking pop ups on that site. Couldn't even read the story, they were so bad.

I have adblocker and noscript. Its a Jewish magazine that discussed Kushners ties to Saudi Royals.

 

[loyalyolayal]

A reform movement led by a Wahabi (for all intents and purposes) dictator? While I hope I'm wrong, I don't believe it's stemming from some sort of altruism. Substantial change tends to come from revolution and not evolution from those in power.

Cannibals promoting veganism.

 

[robotsonic]

A panelist on CNBC last night suggested it was a power preservation thing disguised as anti-corruption.

CNBC with amazing insight as always. Everybody knows that's exactly what this is. Every time a totalitarian government goes on an anti corruption drive it's essentially one set of guys purging another. This is news to nobody.

 

[Bald1]

Cannibals promoting veganism.

Great way of putting it.

 

[Supereem]

This has not really happened in Saudi Arabia, which still controls most of the worlds oil. On top of that, it is the spiritual home of Sunni Islam.

Disruptions in this part of the world can have huge consequences for global trade and thus the global economy. Likewise, there are talks this purge could lead to a throwdown with Iran, which obviously has the potential to ignite a world war. As the great powers get more invested and tied up into this shit hole of a region the more exposed we are to global disaster.

My thoughts are nothing will happen before the world's dependency on ME oil reduces to the point no one gives a shit about the region anymore, but there is always a risk and events like these increase the likelihood of something bad happening.

I think the Crown Prince is purging to retain his power, but I also think he loves SA and is embarrassed by its place in the world. It is a scary shit hole to cultured Westerners, and he wants to change that.

 

[Fluffernutter]

In my country, a kid taking a few classes in a liberal arts college prior to dropping out is still just that: a college drop-out, no matter if he's a local or international student.

http://time.com/3690911/mohammed-bin-nayef-lewis-clark/

On the other hand, King Saud University is no joke, it's Academic Boards are formed through agreements with U.S/U.K/Canadian Universities, and the courses that the current Crown Prince took (and got a law degree from) are taught in English by Western professors. MbS went as fas as saying that without American cultural influence, his country would have already ended up like North Korea.

So what is your concern between those two individuals, especially in terms of higher education or the lack there-of?

My concern was simple:

Western Educated (and influenced) vs. Spent his entire educational life - adolescence and college years - in the Kingdom.

Living in the West vs. having teachers from the West while still living in the Kingdom.

What's has more impact on his outlook?

 

[Arkain2K]

My concern was simple:

Western Educated (and influenced) vs. Spent his entire educational life - adolescence and college years - in the Kingdom.

Even if Nayed fluffed through classes and didn't graduate, at least he spent some pretty influential time in his life in the US. Many royals (or members of the Shura Council) go to US universities to study (or partake in campus culture).

Whether MbS's teachers are American or not doesn't have the same influence as someone that has actually lived in the West. I work with kids now that have American and Canadian teachers, but zero western influence have rubbed off on them.

Isn't strange how all the older Saudi royalties went to Western schools in the past decades just to return home later and perpetuate the cycle, yet the young Crown Prince educated right there at home is the driving force to modernize Saudi Arabia?

 

[Fluffernutter]

Isn't strange how all the older Saudi royalties went to Western schools in the past decades just to return home and perpetuate the cycle, yet the young one educated right there at home is the only one working hard to modernize his country?

Like how he is modernizing Yemen?

 

[Arkain2K]

Like how he is modernizing Yemen?

Yemen is his country as much as Iraq is your country.

 

[Fluffernutter]

I

On the other hand, King Saud University is no joke, it's Academic Boards are formed through agreements with U.S/U.K/Canadian Universities, and the courses that the current Crown Prince took (and got a law degree from) are taught in English by Western professors. MbS went as fas as saying that without American cultural influence, his country would have already ended up like North Korea.

So what is your concern between those two individuals, especially in terms of higher education or the lack there-of?

"The student body of KSU today consists of 40,000 male and female students, 7% of which are international."

Now, the new university city they are building in Jeddah (from what I've read), will be a true international university. Students, staff, and faculty will be from all over the globe.

My gut tells me they are trying to compete for students and faculty with the western universities that have been built in Doha and Abu Dhabi (Georgetown and NYU for instance)

 

[Fluffernutter]

Yemen is his country as much as Iraq is your country.

I absolutely agree that MbS has made positive steps forward (like women being able to drive).

I'm just still a bit weary regarding the military excisions he is participating in and his consolidation of authority. But, I guess that's what being a King is all about...at least it was during medieval times.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Isn't strange how all the older Saudi royalties went to Western schools in the past decades just to return home later and perpetuate the cycle, yet the young Crown Prince educated right there at home is the driving force to modernize Saudi Arabia?

Oh, one more regarding his modernizing (I can't read the link to the WaPo article you hyperlinked).

I have heard that he really has curtailed the authority of the Mutawa. It was not just lip service.

I have heard that they are practically non-existent in Jeddah (again, where he is hoping to build cities and universities that will model Doha, Dubai, and Abu Dhabi).

The BBC did an interesting mini-documentary a couple of months ago. Within the piece, they stated that the Saudi authorities are tired that much of the citizens' leisure time (and money) leaves the Kingdom each weekend as they trek to the UAE or Bahrain to let their hair down.

By offering leisure activities within the Kingdom, and relaxing some of their more conservative social laws, millions (if not billions) of dollars a year will stay within their economy.

It's interesting how economic freedom and social freedom are interlocked.

 

[Arkain2K]

Should we expect Prince Mohammed bin Salman to be poisoned at a banquet designed to mock his fallen and fugitive enemies?

I'm not even gonna be surprise if people are already meeting in the sandpits trying hatch an assassination plot. People in the old system don't like it when young blood try to force changes.

Wake me up when Saudi Arabia dismantled their multi-billion dollar terrorist training factories, known as their wahhabi schools.

You guys want to solve the radical Islam problem. We need to bomb those schools. Not joking. I don't care if innocent kids die in the attacks. Those schools are brain washing terrorist factories.

So far he's done pretty good with what he sets out to do, we will see if the hardline clerics have the balls to resists now that all his corrupted political rivals have been purged in a single night.

Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince promises a return to moderate Islam
Sam Meredith | Wed, 25 Oct 2017

Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, has promised a return to "a more moderate Islam," as the Kingdom continues to push ahead with sweeping cultural and economic reforms.

Speaking at Riyadh's Future Investment Initiative conference on Tuesday, Saudi Arabia's crown prince said he would be prepared to "destroy" extremist ideologies in order to put the country in unison with other nations around the world.

"In all honesty, we will not spend 30 years of our lives dealing with extremist ideologies. We will destroy them today and immediately," he said.

"Saudi was not like this before 1979. Saudi Arabia and the entire region went through a revival after 1979 … All we are doing is going back to what we were: a moderate Islam that is open to all religions and to the world and to all traditions and people," he said.

'We will obliterate the remnants of extremism'

The crown prince's reference to 1979 was likely a nod to a tumultuous year for the country, in which Riyadh jostled with Iran for leadership of the Islamic world. Saudi Arabia's Shiite minority also staged a deadly revolt in Al-Hasa province that same year.

In response, the Saudi monarchy strengthened ties with the Wahhabi religious establishment and restored many of its hardline stances. Wahhabism is a form of Islam which emphasizes the absolute sovereignty of God, bans the mixing of sexes in public and places numerous restrictions on women.

In 2015, King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud – alongside bin Salman – sought to introduce a new age of Saudi politics. And in June, the king promoted bin Salman to crown prince, making him heir apparent.

The two have cracked down on religious incitement, sanctioned the first music concerts in decades and gradually granted women a growing number of rights — including the right to drive, which is set to take effect in 2018.

"Some clear steps were taken recently and I believe we will obliterate the remnants of extremism very soon," bin Salman said.

Watchdog groups, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, have reported in recent months that the Saudi Kingdom still has a long way to go in order to modernize.

Vision 2030

The crown prince is currently undertaking the mammoth task of rapidly transforming Saudi Arabia's economy. The Kingdom aims to raise about $100 billion by taking a portion of its state oil giant Saudi Aramco public next year. The funds will underwrite an effort to diversify the nation's economy through a plan called Vision 2030.

The precipitous drop of oil prices from more than $100 a barrel in 2014 to roughly $55 to date has hastened Saudi Arabia's transition from a petrostate to a Gulf nation built on a broader range of industries.


'Now is the time' for economic and financial reforms

At present, oil reportedly employs around 70 percent of Saudi Arabia's population — both directly and indirectly. And Saudi citizens pay no taxes while receiving free education, free health care, and subsidies for most utilities.

In 2015, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) projected the Saudi economy would run out of financial reserves by 2020.

However, in contrast to the IMF's forecast, Saudi Arabia said in a statement Wednesday that it has ambitions of increasing its Public Investment Fund (PIF) to 1.5 trillion riyals ($400 billion) over the same period.

The Kingdom's main sovereign wealth fund currently has around $230 billion worth of assets under management, though it is poised to receive proceeds from the initial public offering (IPO) of the world's largest oil company next year.

Saudi Arabia's PIF aims to create 20,000 direct domestic jobs and 256,000 construction jobs by 2020.

When asked whether the so-called "Davos in the desert" conference this week felt like a watershed moment for Riyadh, Altaf Kassam, head of research and strategy at State Street Global Advisors, told CNBC the conference was being touted as a "coming out party for Saudi Arabia's capital markets."

"It does feel like they have done a lot of work in the background, they've had the change of succession and now is really the time to start rolling out the major economic and financial reforms," he said Wednesday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/25/saudi-arabia-promises-a-return-to-moderate-islam.html

 

[MicroBrew]

I never really looked into why he resigned but when I read the headline I immediately rolled my eyes, knowing that no one on the Middle East is giving up power based on principles. Made more sense when he said Hezbollah or Iran was going to kill him but still, I don't get why now and not before.

He resigned while he was in Saudi. People (Lebanese forums) are saying he took marching orders from Saudi. The Harriris have been Saudi shills for a long time, from Rafik Harriris time atleast.

 

[MicroBrew]

Many of the Saudi royal family went to western universities. The former crown Prince even went to Lewis & Clark College.

However, MbS (the current Crown Prince and the guy making these decisions) has only done his schooling in Saudi Arabia.

Should that be a concern?

MBS's mentor is UAE crown prince Muhammed bin Zayed al Nayhan, and the UAE leadeship are seen as 'moderate' , compared to Saudi , Qatar and Kuwait.

 

[Fluffernutter]

He resigned while he was in Saudi. People (Lebanese forums) are saying he took marching orders from Saudi. The Harriris have been Saudi shills for a long time, from Rafik Harriris time atleast.

I just read yesterday that he was a dual citizen of both countries.

I have never heard of a head of state being a citizen of two different countries before.

 

[Rematch]

I just read yesterday that he was a dual citizen of both countries.

I have never heard of a head of state being a citizen of two different countries before.

That's a treasonous conflict of interest there.

 

[Undying Poster]

I just read yesterday that he was a dual citizen of both countries.

I have never heard of a head of state being a citizen of two different countries before.

I didn't even know SA allowed dual citizenship, afaik it's difficult to become a citizen

 

[GhostZ06]

This has not really happened in Saudi Arabia, which still controls most of the worlds oil. On top of that, it is the spiritual home of Sunni Islam.

Disruptions in this part of the world can have huge consequences for global trade and thus the global economy. Likewise, there are talks this purge could lead to a throwdown with Iran, which obviously has the potential to ignite a world war. As the great powers get more invested and tied up into this shit hole of a region the more exposed we are to global disaster.

My thoughts are nothing will happen before the world's dependency on ME oil reduces to the point no one gives a shit about the region anymore, but there is always a risk and events like these increase the likelihood of something bad happening.

I think the Crown Prince is purging to retain his power, but I also think he loves SA and is embarrassed by its place in the world. It is a scary shit hole to cultured Westerners, and he wants to change that.

they dont really anymore

 

[Rematch]

I have adblocker and noscript. Its a Jewish magazine that discussed Kushners ties to Saudi Royals.

AdBlock+ and NoScript have been kissed by the lips of God himself to frustrate advertisers and covert installers.