CroCop all-time status
- Thread starter the ambush
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This.
A great fighter to watch in his prime. Top 3 HW in his era but never #1, left behind by more complete fighters.
He helped to build the sport and gave the fans a lot of highlight reel KOs.
Mirko was arguably the second best HW at some point of his career... only behind Fedor (no shame on that).
And this discussion is why everything about rankings is BS. You just can
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I have Mirko right now at the fifth greatest heavyweight of all time.
1. Fedor - no one is catching him any time soon.
2. Big Nog - The only reason why Big Nog isn't the HW GOAT is because his prime happened to coincident with Fedor's.
3. Cain - The only reason why Cain can't be ranked higher, at least at this point, is because his prime came after Fedor and Big Nog were past theirs.
4. Barnett - It's tough for me to give Barnett the nod over Mirko. But something about Barnett staying relevant for so long, and having a resurgence so late in his career, gives him the nod ahead of Mirko. That said, Mirko had his number head to head.
5. Mirko - Mirko could have easily been (4), but his shaky performances late in his career are tarnishing his stats. (T)KO losses against Big Country, Mir and Shaub should have never happened. And a lot of his UFC losses would have never happened during Mirko's Pride years.
6. JDS - You know, here is the thing with JDS. I think he may be this generation's Big Nog. The greatest HW in this generation right now is Cain, without a doubt. And Cain whooped that ass twice.
The real difference between Cain-JDS and Fedor-Big Nog was that Big Nog never defeated Fedor. No one did when he was in his prime. But I think you can appreciate the logic there. Now, JDS can move up 2-3 spots if he gets a few more impressive wins over more top (5)-(10) ranked fighters, but he has no chance of being up there with Fedor.
Five years down the road, I think the (all-time) HW top five will look like this:
1. Fedor
2. Cain
3. Big Nog
4. JDS
5. Barnett
6. Mirko
The only fighter in that list to go undefeated against solid competition in his prime and dominate is Fedor. The rest, it's all about the fights between them and overall career accomplishments. That makes (2) - (6) heavily debatable. This is subject to change, of course. Maybe some up and coming HW will take the crown away from Cain, and rule for a few years. I'm not expecting it to happen, however. So I think this is about as accurate of a prediction as one can make five years out.
1. Fedor - no one is catching him any time soon.
2. Big Nog - The only reason why Big Nog isn't the HW GOAT is because his prime happened to coincident with Fedor's.
3. Cain - The only reason why Cain can't be ranked higher, at least at this point, is because his prime came after Fedor and Big Nog were past theirs.
4. Barnett - It's tough for me to give Barnett the nod over Mirko. But something about Barnett staying relevant for so long, and having a resurgence so late in his career, gives him the nod ahead of Mirko. That said, Mirko had his number head to head.
5. Mirko - Mirko could have easily been (4), but his shaky performances late in his career are tarnishing his stats. (T)KO losses against Big Country, Mir and Shaub should have never happened. And a lot of his UFC losses would have never happened during Mirko's Pride years.
6. JDS - You know, here is the thing with JDS. I think he may be this generation's Big Nog. The greatest HW in this generation right now is Cain, without a doubt. And Cain whooped that ass twice.
The real difference between Cain-JDS and Fedor-Big Nog was that Big Nog never defeated Fedor. No one did when he was in his prime. But I think you can appreciate the logic there. Now, JDS can move up 2-3 spots if he gets a few more impressive wins over more top (5)-(10) ranked fighters, but he has no chance of being up there with Fedor.
Five years down the road, I think the (all-time) HW top five will look like this:
1. Fedor
2. Cain
3. Big Nog
4. JDS
5. Barnett
6. Mirko
The only fighter in that list to go undefeated against solid competition in his prime and dominate is Fedor. The rest, it's all about the fights between them and overall career accomplishments. That makes (2) - (6) heavily debatable. This is subject to change, of course. Maybe some up and coming HW will take the crown away from Cain, and rule for a few years. I'm not expecting it to happen, however. So I think this is about as accurate of a prediction as one can make five years out.
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If he called it quits perhaps after winning the OWGP or did a final rematch with Fedor at Shockwave 2006 (and lost), never accepting the UFC's offer, then he'd be unanimously considered a MMA ATG and Top 5 Heavyweight of all time. But the UFC run he had was so abysmal and had so many brutal defeats at the hands of lesser-tier competition, guys like Gonzaga and Schaub, his record ends up looking much more shaky, and criticisms are understandable.
That being said, he still did a bunch of amazing shit when he was in MMA as a Kickboxing crossover, be it becoming the first fighter to KO Igor Vovchanchyn in 60 MMA fights, the guy that truly ended Wanderlei Silva's peak years, the man that stopped Sakuraba in perhaps the biggest MMA Main Event in history, the guy who put on an exhibition of MMA with Fedor that still in many fan's eyes is the best fight of all time, and the man that won the 2006 OWGP on his late Father's birthday.
That being said, he still did a bunch of amazing shit when he was in MMA as a Kickboxing crossover, be it becoming the first fighter to KO Igor Vovchanchyn in 60 MMA fights, the guy that truly ended Wanderlei Silva's peak years, the man that stopped Sakuraba in perhaps the biggest MMA Main Event in history, the guy who put on an exhibition of MMA with Fedor that still in many fan's eyes is the best fight of all time, and the man that won the 2006 OWGP on his late Father's birthday.
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My thoughts exactly...
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I put him around the same level as Chuck is at LHW
At his best; a monster, sadly his fade out was quick and sharp.
At his best; a monster, sadly his fade out was quick and sharp.
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Just because I like reading others assess his career.
bump
bump
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A brief run of success, then Gonzaga let the dogs out and they just kept on comin'.
All time status: One-dimensional and Overrrrrated! Way.
All time status: One-dimensional and Overrrrrated! Way.
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Legend...
Sure he had awesome kicks, but when he was at his best, that straight left was a thing of beauty.. Also GOAT TDD, along with Chuck.
Sure he had awesome kicks, but when he was at his best, that straight left was a thing of beauty.. Also GOAT TDD, along with Chuck.
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I'd agree on this.
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I'm sure you were a huge MMA fan back in the PRIDE days.
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Even in PRIDE, his main weapon was his kickboxing. Thats what I meant
great potential,fucked up head
Didn't reach top in K1 (twas the best k1 period but anway...)
Didn't reach top in MMA but was THE striker in MMA for a while
Never stepped up and trained somewhere else,sometimes he went to holland but...
He always wanted to be his own boss,his trainers were his friends,his sparring partners were mostly amaterus he beat up on every training.never listened to any critics.as soon as the injuries kicked in his lack of quality training,gameplan etc. showed even more.
And ever since he got on facebook,I see he is also the biggest whiner ever.
Wish he retired after pride and retreated with fedor to the mountains so we never saw or heard a word from them again and they could live happily ever after in our memories
Didn't reach top in K1 (twas the best k1 period but anway...)
Didn't reach top in MMA but was THE striker in MMA for a while
Never stepped up and trained somewhere else,sometimes he went to holland but...
He always wanted to be his own boss,his trainers were his friends,his sparring partners were mostly amaterus he beat up on every training.never listened to any critics.as soon as the injuries kicked in his lack of quality training,gameplan etc. showed even more.
And ever since he got on facebook,I see he is also the biggest whiner ever.
Wish he retired after pride and retreated with fedor to the mountains so we never saw or heard a word from them again and they could live happily ever after in our memories
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TS used a highlight of Cro-Cop KOing Wandy in PRIDE yet the best he could find from a UFC reel was a fight against Mostapha Al-Turk.
That pretty much sums it up right there. Lol
That pretty much sums it up right there. Lol
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As an athlete Mirko peaked in early 2005, around the time he fought Fedor. Almost immediately after, though, started to see a physical decline in his speed and abilities. The Cro Cop that won the GP, was not a peak form Cro Cop, but a declining one. His bewilderment when he fought in the cage for the first time was evident from his first fight in it, he didn't know how to cut angles or really anything else within it. When he fought Gonzaga, this was obvious, and a little less so when he fought Kongo. But by the time he figured it out, his body was willing, but his head wasn't. He never truly got over the Gonzaga KO, imo, he was always gunshy after that fight, and wouldn't take the big risks that he used to. His biggest strength was his speed, and once that diminished, there wasn't much else Mirko had. He was always a one-shot KO type fighter, and when that ability was gone, so was his elite status.
As for his all-time status at the Heavies, I'd say that he has a strong legacy throughout the early parts of his career, and that he'll be remembered when we talk about the greats. But, his career never involved a true championship, in MMA, though he did win the Grand PRIX. He was the king without a crown for a while, and then he wasn't.
His story will always be of what could have been, sadly enough.
I'd place him in the top 10 for now. But people like Fedor, Big Nog, Barnett, Cain, Couture, Sylvia and the like will always be above him for me, simply because he never did capture a belt. Sadly.
He was the fighter that truly got me into MMA in '03, but his time has passed, and his legacy will never be of someone who was the best.
As for his all-time status at the Heavies, I'd say that he has a strong legacy throughout the early parts of his career, and that he'll be remembered when we talk about the greats. But, his career never involved a true championship, in MMA, though he did win the Grand PRIX. He was the king without a crown for a while, and then he wasn't.
His story will always be of what could have been, sadly enough.
I'd place him in the top 10 for now. But people like Fedor, Big Nog, Barnett, Cain, Couture, Sylvia and the like will always be above him for me, simply because he never did capture a belt. Sadly.
He was the fighter that truly got me into MMA in '03, but his time has passed, and his legacy will never be of someone who was the best.
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