Critique My Snatch

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

TS posts a video with loaded weight that clearly shows technique and mobility issues. See if those issues still exist with an empty barbell and shorten up the lifts. Shocking - they do. Technique issues even with an empty barbell can be very apparent in oly lifting. Once he's corrected it with a barbell, add weight on the shortened lifts and work on the full lift with the barbell. These are pretty basic concepts ran by many successful oly coaches. Maybe these don't make sense to you because you learned oly lifts from reading starting strength lol.

In my limited experience the broomstick test or even empty bar test is a tougher training that a loaded bar with light weight. Broomstick is super unforgiving because you don t have weight to help you keep everything in place. In other words what may look OK with 2x10Kg can look like shit withno weight because it exposes your mobility and balance. So I agree with you.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

TS posts a video with loaded weight that clearly shows technique and mobility issues. See if those issues still exist with an empty barbell and shorten up the lifts. Shocking - they do. Technique issues even with an empty barbell can be very apparent in oly lifting. Once he's corrected it with a barbell, add weight on the shortened lifts and work on the full lift with the barbell. These are pretty basic concepts ran by many successful oly coaches. Maybe these don't make sense to you because you learned oly lifts from reading starting strength lol.

For the viewers out there this is complete bullsh*t. You do not learn technique for the olympic lifts with a PVC pipe it is as simple as that. You must load heavy enough to see technical flaws. The end.

 

[Oblivian]

For the viewers out there this is complete bullsh*t. You do not learn technique for the olympic lifts with a PVC pipe it is as simple as that. You must load heavy enough to see technical flaws. The end.

Or they can just watch how you do oly lifts in your log lol

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Or they can just watch how you do oly lifts in your log lol

That would be a silly thing to do considering I do not give one iota about improving my Olympic lifting technique.

 

[PeterGriffin]

Having been lured here by the thread title, this was real letdown.

Well-played, sir.

 

[Oblivian]

That would be a silly thing to do considering I do not give one iota about improving my Olympic lifting technique.

We can tell. That's what makes you such a good person to listen to on oly lifts!

 

[ROcknrollracing]

We can tell. That's what makes you such a good person to listen to on oly lifts!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[666]

10/10 Who cares about technique?

All that matters is picking heavy things up and putting them down.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Had my first paid session with the coaches today and feeling kind of lukewarm now, after all the excellent high level feedback from last week's (free) session. Today they had me work from a low hang snatch pull (below knees) for a 3-second count into high hang and then to completion of second pull with empty bar up to nipples. During this motion, they kept correcting me to start with hips higher, shoulders more pulled back and directly above feet. They also tweaked my toe position more and had me turn my right toe even more outward as shown in this pic:



Coach said this is to compensate for my hips being asymmetrical and my right toe needs to be turned out more than my left. This feels awkward as shit and not what I'm used to, but it does make it easier to drop down into a deep squat. But I have reservations about ingraining a movement pattern from an asymmetrical stance. Further, coach said this should be my ideal foot position for all standing barbell lifts including back squats, DL, etc.

So mixed feelings about my toes being this flared out but I'll try it out. Apparently my low hang snatch pull sucks badly enough that I need to just work on that and OH squats with empty bar until next week, without getting into third pull or drop snatches yet.

What teed me off a little was the (female) coach telling me I would be best served in grappling by focusing on SBD vs. oly lifting. Also that at my age, I need to "work twice as hard on SBD" to be as strong as younger guys. I told her I don't care about competing with younger guys, have been lifting for 35 years in conjunction with combat sports and am already stronger than most guys my size on the mats, regardless of age. Then the zinger was telling me that benchpress is the most underrated lift and possibly the most applicable to sports. Also "having a stronger bench will help you shrimp away in bottom mount and bench guys off of you." My bullshit alarm was going crazy.

So I'll do my empty bar drills, try out squats and snatch pulls with my right toe flared out fucking 900 degrees and see what happens over the next 3 sessions that I've already paid for.

 

[Fahcough]

Had my first paid session with the coaches today and feeling kind of lukewarm now, after all the excellent high level feedback from last week's (free) session. Today they had me work from a low hang snatch pull (below knees) for a 3-second count into high hang and then to completion of second pull with empty bar up to nipples. During this motion, they kept correcting me to start with hips higher, shoulders more pulled back and directly above feet. They also tweaked my toe position more and had me turn my right toe even more outward as shown in this pic:

View attachment 1041099

Coach said this is to compensate for my hips being asymmetrical and my right toe needs to be turned out more than my left. This feels awkward as shit and not what I'm used to, but it does make it easier to drop down into a deep squat. But I have reservations about ingraining a movement pattern from an asymmetrical stance. Further, coach said this should be my ideal foot position for all standing barbell lifts including back squats, DL, etc.

So mixed feelings about my toes being this flared out but I'll try it out. Apparently my low hang snatch pull sucks badly enough that I need to just work on that and OH squats with empty bar until next week, without getting into third pull or drop snatches yet.

What teed me off a little was the (female) coach telling me I would be best served in grappling by focusing on SBD vs. oly lifting. Also that at my age, I need to "work twice as hard on SBD" to be as strong as younger guys. I told her I don't care about competing with younger guys, have been lifting for 35 years in conjunction with combat sports and am already stronger than most guys my size on the mats, regardless of age. Then the zinger was telling me that benchpress is the most underrated lift and possibly the most applicable to sports. Also "having a stronger bench will allow you shrimp away in bottom mount and bench guys off of you." My bullshit alarm was going off like crazy.

So I'll do my empty bar drills, try out squats and snatch pulls with my right toe flared out fucking 900 degrees and see what happens over the next 3 sessions that I've already paid for.

Get your moneys worth, should be BW going overhead by August and 225 by Christmas? Tell her to stick to her familiar snatch topic. Bench is over rated on Houston Alexander levels.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Get your moneys worth, should be BW going overhead by August and 225 by Christmas? Tell her to stick to her familiar snatch topic. Bench is over rated on Houston Alexander levels.

Lol I was optimistic after last week's session but now I'm not so sure. It sounds like my first pull is even more fucked up than I thought and needs work - and apparently that has to be fixed or it messes up the 2nd and 3rd pulls. They also told me to use hook grip which I need to get used to on top of having my right foot almost sideways. So doing it now, I feel like the Peter Griffin version of the bionic man from Family Guy:

Guess I can't hate on the coach for trying to upsell me on more oly and powerlifting though. When you're a hammer and all that.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Since you already paid you may as well learn the lifts but she is not wrong. Devoting time to being a proficient Olympic lifter is not a good use of your time.

 

[ASUThermo]

Had my first paid session with the coaches today and feeling kind of lukewarm now, after all the excellent high level feedback from last week's (free) session. Today they had me work from a low hang snatch pull (below knees) for a 3-second count into high hang and then to completion of second pull with empty bar up to nipples. During this motion, they kept correcting me to start with hips higher, shoulders more pulled back and directly above feet. They also tweaked my toe position more and had me turn my right toe even more outward as shown in this pic:

View attachment 1041099

Coach said this is to compensate for my hips being asymmetrical and my right toe needs to be turned out more than my left. This feels awkward as shit and not what I'm used to, but it does make it easier to drop down into a deep squat. But I have reservations about ingraining a movement pattern from an asymmetrical stance. Further, coach said this should be my ideal foot position for all standing barbell lifts including back squats, DL, etc.

So mixed feelings about my toes being this flared out but I'll try it out. Apparently my low hang snatch pull sucks badly enough that I need to just work on that and OH squats with empty bar until next week, without getting into third pull or drop snatches yet.

What teed me off a little was the (female) coach telling me I would be best served in grappling by focusing on SBD vs. oly lifting. Also that at my age, I need to "work twice as hard on SBD" to be as strong as younger guys. I told her I don't care about competing with younger guys, have been lifting for 35 years in conjunction with combat sports and am already stronger than most guys my size on the mats, regardless of age. Then the zinger was telling me that benchpress is the most underrated lift and possibly the most applicable to sports. Also "having a stronger bench will help you shrimp away in bottom mount and bench guys off of you." My bullshit alarm was going off like crazy.

So I'll do my empty bar drills, try out squats and snatch pulls with my right toe flared out fucking 900 degrees and see what happens over the next 3 sessions that I've already paid for.

I like some of this and I dislike some of this. Finding the proper Weightlifting stance to best suit an individual does differ, and many times the best stance will be asymmetrical, best example is Dmitry Klokov. Bench press is not the end all be all of pressing exercises, very overrated for athletes.

I don't really want to go back to read through the thread but...
What is your age?
Why are you targeting snatch?
Where do you prioritize combat sports in regards to your fitness goals?

If you're incorporating snatch to aid you in sport, performing the power snatch would probably be your best option to be honest. If you want to simply get good at snatch hammering home overhead squats at a high frequency under light to moderate loads would be a very good option. Snatch push press is also a solid choice to help get that position right. Sitting in the hole for extended periods of time should be implemented also. Snatch is typically not taxing so high frequency (3+ days a week for a masters lifter) shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Oblivian]

Lol I was optimistic after last week's session but now I'm not so sure. It sounds like my first pull is even more fucked up than I thought and needs work - and apparently that has to be fixed or it messes up the 2nd and 3rd pulls. They also told me to use hook grip which I need to get used to on top of having my right foot almost sideways. So doing it now, I feel like the Peter Griffin version of the bionic man from Family Guy:

Guess I can't hate on the coach for trying to upsell me on more oly and powerlifting though. When you're a hammer and all that.

Not being a dick here, but when I mentioned doing OH squats with just the bar and maybe some high hang work, it was because everything looks a bit off. It almost looks like you have a really hard time getting into an OH squat position. I'm not sure if it is mobility or just technique. I'd even argue that I wouldn't even be dicking around with snatch at all until you can overhead squat very comfortably as well as drop snatch. This is why the recommendation from @ROcknrollracing was ridiculous - you can clearly see issues with just a bar or light weight here.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Devoting time to being a proficient Olympic lifter is not a good use of your time.

No designs on ever being a competitive oly lifter, or even a good one. And yes, I'll keep doing SBD while also trying to vary the workouts.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Not being a dick here, but when I mentioned doing OH squats with just the bar and maybe some high hang work, it was because everything looks a bit off. It almost looks like you have a really hard time getting into an OH squat position. I'm not sure if it is mobility or just technique. I'd even argue that I wouldn't even be dicking around with snatch at all until you can overhead squat very comfortably as well as drop snatch. This is why the recommendation from @ROcknrollracing was ridiculous - you can clearly see issues with just a bar or light weight here.

I think in general your comments have been on the money, based on what the coaches have been telling me. With the one exception that I think you need something heavier than a PVC pipe to show the lift properly. Coaches are having me warm up with the PVC but using an empty bar to critique my technique. Bar is still pretty light but gives more feedback to keep you honest during the lift.

I also thought my main issue was mobility. But the coaches are saying I actually have very good mobility with better ROM for a snatch than the female coach does. But my technique was lacking and it sounds like my foot position in particular (not flared out enough) has been preventing me from dropping under the bar properly.

 

[Oblivian]

I think in general your comments have been on the money, based on what the coaches have been telling me. With the one exception that I think you need something heavier than a PVC pipe to show the lift properly. Coaches are having me warm up with the PVC but using an empty bar to critique my technique. Bar is still pretty light but gives more feedback to keep you honest during the lift.

I also thought my main issue was mobility. But the coaches are saying I actually have very good mobility with better ROM for a snatch than the female coach does. But my technique was lacking and it sounds like my foot position in particular (not flared out enough) has been preventing me from dropping under the bar properly.

I actually never said PVC pipe - that was @ROcknrollracing throwing out a strawman. I mentioned a bar or very light weight.

FWIW, I learned oly lifts on off days from SBD. It should not be that taxing and almost works as active recovery. Even now, it's not that taxing to me as I'm normally snatching <200 lbs and clean and jerk <275 lbs. If you have been doing SBD for a while, your strength to oly lift ratio will be much higher than someone devoted to oly lifts. I don't think I'll ever stop doing oly lifts as I think it's a good thing to keep going for someone older. It keeps you moving fast with coordination and balance, what many older people lack.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I like some of this and I dislike some of this. Finding the proper Weightlifting stance to best suit an individual does differ, and many times the best stance will be asymmetrical, best example is Dmitry Klokov. Bench press is not the end all be all of pressing exercises, very overrated for athletes.

I don't really want to go back to read through the thread but...
What is your age?
Why are you targeting snatch?
Where do you prioritize combat sports in regards to your fitness goals?

If you're incorporating snatch to aid you in sport, performing the power snatch would probably be your best option to be honest. If you want to simply get good at snatch hammering home overhead squats at a high frequency under light to moderate loads would be a very good option. Snatch push press is also a solid choice to help get that position right. Sitting in the hole for extended periods of time should be implemented also. Snatch is typically not taxing so high frequency (3+ days a week for a masters lifter) shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks for the feedback - I know you're a coach and competitor and have a lot of experience here. I'm about to turn 50. Interested in snatch because wanted to change it up after years focusing on SBD and now after 2 years trying to teach myself (on top of my normal workouts), I have anger issues driven by my continued inability to do a correct one to depth.

Former combat sports competitor (HS wrestling, college team Judo, club boxing, senior hobbyist competitor in wrestling and BJJ) but my competition days are behind me and at this point I'm a general fitness enthusiast who trains combat sports and wants to continue doing both with my son as he gets older. I know snatch is very difficult to learn properly but I'd like to get my form good enough to do more than I can OH press and then continue working it as a supplement to SBD.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I actually never said PVC pipe - that was @ROcknrollracing throwing out a strawman. I mentioned a bar or very light weight.

FWIW, I learned oly lifts on off days from SBD. It should not be that taxing and almost works as active recovery. Even now, it's not that taxing to me as I'm normally snatching <200 lbs and clean and jerk <275 lbs. If you have been doing SBD for a while, your strength to oly lift ratio will be much higher than someone devoted to oly lifts. I don't think I'll ever stop doing oly lifts as I think it's a good thing to keep going for someone older. It keeps you moving fast with coordination and balance, what many older people lack.

Nice. Yup, this is exactly why I want to add oly lifting to my routine.

 

[ASUThermo]

Thanks for the feedback - I know you're a coach and competitor and have a lot of experience here. I'm about to turn 50. Interested in snatch because wanted to change it up after years focusing on SBD and now after 2 years trying to teach myself (on top of my normal workouts), I have anger issues driven by my continued inability to do a correct one to depth.

Former combat sports competitor (HS wrestling, college team Judo, club boxing, senior hobbyist competitor in wrestling and BJJ) but my competition days are behind me and at this point I'm a general fitness enthusiast who trains combat sports and wants to continue doing both with my son as he gets older. I know snatch is very difficult to learn properly but I'd like to get my form good enough to do more than I can OH press and then continue working it as a supplement to SBD.

With that being said I disagree with the coaches telling you not to pursuit snatch.

Things that seem to work are power snatches combined with OHS's, progressing the weight on the bar and the depth of the catch in the power position. You should be able to handle 3 sessions per week or more for sure. Sets of 2's and 3's with ~50-60% of a training max is a great start.

Might want to limit your volume on bench press training initially.