Media Cory says Merab's takedown spam is a way to game the system

[DougieJones]

Do Merab's whiny opponents realize they could also take him down? Dude isn't "gaming the system" doing something you are not as good at and/or have zero ways to stop

 

[Captain Herb]

Takedowns that do nothing should count for nothing and failed takedowns should be penalized, after a certain point, for stalling

 

[Black0ut]

He is kinda right but who else besides Merab could actually make that strategy work? Anyone else gases and probably gets finished.

Merab’s cardio just seems to be next level.

 

[Chagaev]

I don't find Merab entertaining and only watch 2-3 rounds of his matches. When the opponent starts to slow down or it's clear he can't get a finish, I'm out.

But as a guy that played sports I have no issue with what he does. "Gaming the system" is what every fighter that has a team and a game plan should do, if that's what it takes to win.

 

[Captain Herb]

I don't find Merab entertaining and only watch 2-3 rounds of his matches. When the opponent starts to slow down or it's clear he can't get a finish, I'm out.

But as a guy that played sports I have no issue with what he does. "Gaming the system" is what every fighter that has a team and a game plan should do, if that's what it takes to win.

Gaming the system isn't the fault of the fighter, it's the fault of the rules commission. Rules can always be changed, and for a good reason--to make the sport more entertaining. It's been done in every sport, over and over, throughout history.

 

[mkess101]

He is kinda right but who else besides Merab could actually make that strategy work? Anyone else gases and probably gets finished.

Merab’s cardio just seems to be next level.

Cory is the only one who can match his cardio, but Cory isn't a good enough wrestler to keep Merab off him long enough to make the fight look different. He was good enough to keep getting up, but not good enough to mount enough offense.

I haven't seen anyone else close to these two in terms of cardio.

 

[Alpha_T83]

The remedy to this "boring meta" is the same way wrestlers were dealt with before, improved TDD.
If the guy is taking you down 20 times, he's closing the distance 20 times. If you can't capitalize even a single time on that, that's on you.

Merab is really good at what he does, and unlike rules made around other fighters like Jon Jones, nothing Merab does is illegal. The judging criteria has been changed to favor damage, according just purely to that metric even if you take out all of the grappling in the fight, Merab had Corey hurt a lot more than the other way around.

I like Sandhagen, but he didn't have a single answer for Merab and he's butthurt about it.

I'm not sure that's possible without dedicating your career to grappling like Merab, Umar, Khabib, Khamzat, etc.

Do we want the requisite MMA base to be the highest level wrestling possible to even compete? Over the long run, without rule changes, that will take exciting strikers mostly out of MMA contention. I'm not saying this is morally right or wrong, but I personally think it makes the sport more boring in the long run.

I hope I'm incorrect here. I'd love to see a resurgence of strikers that can defend takedowns like Chuck Liddell. Strikers that once again take over MMA and start knocking out all the grapplers. But the type of Caucuses chain wrestling we are seeing is very different from Randy Couture & Georges St. Pierre. I'm not sure it can be beaten in the current MMA ruleset by a striker with "better TDD".

 

[Alpha_T83]

Takedowns that do nothing should count for nothing and failed takedowns should be penalized, after a certain point, for stalling

I agree. IMO Merab should have lost points for stalling the fight, not won rounds for multiple takedowns which were immediately reversed.

I know there are people that make arguments about "Merab is sapping his opponent's energy with multiple takedowns" -- but the problem is that just potential if not realized. He didn't realize that potential in the Cory fight.

 

[jeskola]

This is dumb. Its like saying "Max Holloway punched that guy 450 times but didn't even knock him down, he is gaming the system!"

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Do we want the requisite MMA base to be the highest level wrestling possible to even compete? Over the long run, without rule changes, that will take exciting strikers mostly out of MMA contention.

It's happened before, it was dealt with before. Half the guys in the sport used to not know how to sprawl, it was fine being taken down into guard. Now a sprawl is part of your MMA 101 beginner classes.
It's also highly dependent on what division we're talking about. Poatan is a two weight champ without a lick of wrestling in him, and in all likelihood one of the most exciting strikers we've ever seen.

I hope I'm incorrect here. I'd love to see a resurgence of strikers that can defend takedowns like Chuck Liddell. Strikers that once again take over MMA and start knocking out all the grapplers. But the type of Caucuses chain wrestling we are seeing is very different from Randy Couture & Georges St. Pierre. I'm not sure it can be beaten in the current MMA ruleset by a striker with "better TDD".

Maybe you can't deal with every wrestler, hey sometimes they become the champ for a reason, but I believe we are already seeing people dealing with the chain wrestling.

JDM vs Islam is the nearest upcoming test of that theory. Volk vs Islam 1 was the start of the Aussie anti-Daggy tech being developed, now they should be reaching a workable apex against their biggest test, Islam, who is more or less the perfect Dagestani fighter from what we've seen.

It won't be beaten by "a striker with TD" but by a mixed martial artist. If you lose a decision to a wrestler but he isn't at least cut up, bleeding, bruised, something, that's on you.

Merab isn't getting beaten by any of the bums at 135 outside of a lucky shot as even the ones who have the ability to one-shot Merab as he's coming in like Sean or Corey have been thoroughly trounced and embarrassed, one of them gave a sub the other was almost TKO'd on the feet.

I do agree with your overall reasoning and sentiment, I don't want the entire sport to devolve into "25 minute wrestlefuck masters championships" but I do believe that the ones capable of it, such as Merab or Khamzat, are once in a division talents doing it.
I don't think it's an indicator of a trend that will hold forever and I do think it will improve the sport overall by forcing better wrestling and counter wrestling out of everyone.

 

[JoeRowe]

Merab was on the run to end the 5th. For the 2nd time in 3 fights.

Yes nothing says "on the run" like outlanding your opponent 34 to 18 in significant strikes

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

Yes nothing says "on the run" like outlanding your opponent 34 to 18 in significant strikes

I said to end the 5th. Cory caught him and Merab is moving away as the time ticks down. Do you know what "to end" means? The last 15 seconds he is backing up against the cage with Cory walking him down like this





Same way O'Malley was walking him down after the teep to end the first fight. Just saying its pretty ironic for Mr. I could go 1000 rounds to be the one on his bike to end these dominant decision wins right?

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

This is dumb. Its like saying "Max Holloway punched that guy 450 times but didn't even knock him down, he is gaming the system!"

No, Max is exciting. Strickland at his most boring would be the striking equivalent to Merab at his most shitty spammy self like the Jose fight and Petr 1

 

[Marko Polo]

Sorry but this is a sport. People are going to be able to game the system from time to time. Bottom line is if someone can utterly control you with grappling, then you dont get to win.

Someone's gonna have to figure out how to stop Merab.

It’s a sport in its infancy with an unrefined ruleset. Merab is good at what he does because it’s all he trains to do. I’m not saying anyone can be Merab, he is a freak of nature athlete, but his performances aren’t accidental. Same way Topuria isn’t knocking people out by accident, he drills combinations while Merab is scurrying at people’s junk.

It’s a combination of ultra risk averse fighting combined with the ruleset that favours control over damage which has birthed Merab’s streak. He’s not a better fighter than those who have come before him, he’s better at gaming the unified ruleset.

 

[Gamboal]

I don't want to see another of this dwarf's fights again. Hills Have Eyes looking mofo needs to use that cardio to finish his opponents, or at the very least fucking HURT them bad. But that's my issue with the diddy man weight class in general I suppose; these guys are so small with such weak arms it's all pitter patter.

Fuck that shit.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

It’s a sport in its infancy with an unrefined ruleset. Merab is good at what he does because it’s all he trains to do. I’m not saying anyone can be Merab, he is a freak of nature athlete, but his performances aren’t accidental. Same way Topuria isn’t knocking people out by accident, he drills combinations while Merab is scurrying at people’s junk.

It’s a combination of ultra risk averse fighting combined with the ruleset that favours control over damage which has birthed Merab’s streak. He’s not a better fighter than those who have come before him, he’s better at gaming the unified ruleset.

I don't think he's that risk averse. He showboats and he willingly allowed Umar to get up many times despite the striking danger. Also the crazy/stupid stuff he does in his life he doesn't really seem to think about avoiding risks all that much. He just enjoys taking people down and outworking them it seems.

 

[Captain Herb]

I'm not sure that's possible without dedicating your career to grappling like Merab, Umar, Khabib, Khamzat, etc.

Do we want the requisite MMA base to be the highest level wrestling possible to even compete? Over the long run, without rule changes, that will take exciting strikers mostly out of MMA contention. I'm not saying this is morally right or wrong, but I personally think it makes the sport more boring in the long run.

Yeah, this the problem. A world class grappler is always going to have an advantage over a world class striker under the current ruleset and asking the striker to become a world class grappler also, just to compete, is unfair and unrealistic. Maybe that would be desirable if spam wrestling made for a more entertaining sport but it doesn't.

 

[JustBleed69]

"He's gaming the system by ragdolling me" lol

 

[Hotora86]

So is LnP but LnP is much more boring.
Throws are cool to watch, can cause damage and drain gas.

 

[JoeRowe]

I said to end the 5th. Cory caught him and Merab is moving away as the time ticks down. Do you know what "to end" means? The last 15 seconds he is backing up against the cage with Cory walking him down like this

View attachment 1116814



Same way O'Malley was walking him down after the teep to end the first fight. Just saying its pretty ironic for Mr. I could go 1000 rounds to be the one on his bike to end these dominant decision wins right?

He danced around the final 5 seconds because he had already won. Cory had 24:55 before that to walk around pretending to be a Diaz but he did fuck all. Same with O'Malley. They wanna act tough like they didn't just have a half hour to get the job done and chose not to.