Conor and Ronda's downfall are results of the same issue

kuroro said:
they were both too egomaniacal to move up to gyms where they could be tested and disciplined by real professionals
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Has to do with comfort,not ego.
 
They both got to an insanely high level, but I do think they're both pretty delusional, and legitimately believed they were better than they were which made them stop evolving, and Conor even regressed

I definitely think they both would've been much better if they trained in better gyms with other elite fighters, I don't think either had the ego to have ever been able to handle it though
 
true_fan said:
They both are not naturally gifted athletes. Conor gets winded after one round and Ronda she can’t learn how to box. They honestly are lucky to go that far due to the UFC hyping machine
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There have been plenty of fighters who aren't athletically gifted who have had success in MMA. But you're exactly right in what you said. And it's what my point is. Conor's team either doesn't have or don't care about implementing a better strength and cardio program for him. And Ronda's head coach was her boxing coach who never tried correcting her obvious flaws. Both of their coaches were more invested in telling how great they were.

My point is this. Imagine when they both reached their pinnacle or right after their first UFC losses had they moved to a more known camp, ie ATT, AKA, Elevation.
 
TL:DR

The downfall is LOSING fights.
 
Midget Boxer said:
Conor went up a weight class to fight bigger and stronger guys

He's still in his prime

Undefeated vs FWs but a losing record against LWs
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Theoretically, they're both in their fighting primes. And yes, Conor is still in the title picture but how much better would he be if he went to a better gym that would push him.
 
I maintain that both Ronda and Conor would of benefited from joining better gyms.


Glendale FC is a place where careers go to die and SBG Ireland is kinda shitty too.

Too bad Conor burned every bridge possible with every gym possible to the point he can’t train anywhere lol.
 
BlessYourHeart said:
There have been plenty of fighters who aren't athletically gifted who have had success in MMA. But you're exactly right in what you said. And it's what my point is. Conor's team either doesn't have or don't care about implementing a better strength and cardio program for him. And Ronda's head coach was her boxing coach who never tried correcting her obvious flaws. Both of their coaches were more invested in telling how great they were.

My point is this. Imagine when they both reached their pinnacle or right after their first UFC losses had they moved to a more known camp, ie ATT, AKA, Elevation.
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There's no right answer.

ATT has a handful of coaches that coach very specific styles/methodologies. The sheer number of fighters that go through them and get spit out means there's countless hours of video to compare.

You don't think camps that are trying to dethrone champs or keep belts aren't taking extra credits in finding common looks across those athletes? I wouldn't be surprised if they are at a point where they can identify what stage of development each fighter is from each coach. You don't even need 1000s of hours of video to review. Get a former student to explain the system and then compare it to fights to see what aspects appear especially involuntary moves that only come from countless hours of repetition.

Once they scout that every single fighter from that camp is fucked. Then someone at ATT realizes this and they try to make corrections. You have any idea how hard it is to get an athlete to change habits? It's almost unheard of and can take years. Their prime will be over before they plug those few holes only for new ones to arrive.

There are 100% benefits to places like ATT. One being a readily available set of bodies to train with but there are easily as many negatives. With some 50 fighters at any one time either in camp or starting pre-camp and only having a couple of head coaches it's incredibly easy to get lost in the shuffle. Several fighters left ATT because they felt they weren't getting enough attention.

Then there is the spying angle. It 100% happens. It happens with small camps too but virtually every single instance of it has to do with disagreement over money/ego. Before Joanna lost the belt ATT wasn't regularly putting up black tarps to hide live strategy sessions that are usually the last 2 weeks before a fight. Now they do it constantly. That's not really a thing in small camps. They just kick out the non-pros or move that part of the training to a secondary location. Unless there's some kind of life altering drama nobody is snitching there.
 
Very different situations. Ronda made her name off fighting relatively low-level competition. She believed her own hype, in part because of her bad coaches, and failed to improve. When the competition got better, she got exposed. And because her ego was so fragile, she ran away.

On the other hand, Conor got done in by the Mayweather paycheck. After that fight, he became a full-time business man and part-time fighter. That doesn't work at the highest level. I also think weight played a factor. He was a massive FW who beat up smaller opponents; Conor, himself, constantly talked about being larger than his opponents. When he moved up and started fighting guys his size, his power didn't translate as well and his grappling was more easily exposed.

I suppose you could say "ego" was both of their downfalls, but in different ways.
 
They were both great entertainers, very marketable and with enough fighting skill to thrive but not enough to survive long term. I don't think they could have polished their game enough to get past their opponent hurdles in the octagon but their natural talent in appealing to a broad audience could not be learned by some better at fighting. Take Ngannou who cannot understand why he can't go earn 100M in boxing like Conor did or get more money per fight in the UFC. There are a few factors but personal marketability is one of the big ones.
 
HHJ said:
There is truth to it. When you have someone winning fights like Ronda was in less than a minute,over and over and over again you figure,fuck,just keep this girl confident,and everything will be fine. I feel like Ronda's and Brock's careers are more similar than Conor and Ronda's.

Like what would be the point of making Brock a great striker when you know what his bread and butter is gonna be. Pro boxers just outclassing him will bring down his confidence. Its too late to build this dude into a fighter from scratch,dude is in his 30s already.

Hide the negatives,accentuate the positives.

The problem w Ronda is that her camp talked too much about striking that wasnt there. That was the downfall.
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Brock I think did have some natural ability as a striker(he was clumsily but also quite fast for a guy his size) the same way Mark Kerr did but really I wonder whether there mental weakness would always have been an issue? either of them ever liked getting hit.

I think Rousey really is also an example of fighters finding something which works and then narrowing their name just to that, I think you could argue guys like Fedor, Anderson, Rampage, BJ, etc did the same but maybe it stood out more with Rousey as she was using pretty limited striking to beat up on grapplers so the fall when facing better strikers was very hard,
 
moreorless87 said:
Brock I think did have some natural ability as a striker(he was clumsily but also quite fast for a guy his size) the same way Mark Kerr did but really I wonder whether there mental weakness would always have been an issue? either of them ever liked getting hit.

I think Rousey really is also an example of fighters finding something which works and then narrowing their name just to that, I think you could argue guys like Fedor, Anderson, Rampage, BJ, etc did the same but maybe it stood out more with Rousey as she was using pretty limited striking to beat up on grapplers so the fall when facing better strikers was very hard,
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Her not being able to shoot for the legs (bad knees) really limited what she could do with someone like Holly. She couldnt deal w the footwork. Couldnt close the distance.
 
HHJ said:
Her not being able to shoot for the legs (bad knees) really limited what she could do with someone like Holly. She couldnt deal w the footwork. Couldnt close the distance.
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Really though I don't think she was even looking for the clinch that much, early Rousey used punches as cover to get it but by that point...

holly-holm-ronda-rousey.gif
 
moreorless87 said:
Really though I don't think she was even looking for the clinch that much, early Rousey used punches as cover to get it but by that point...

holly-holm-ronda-rousey.gif
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Im sure tho if she had the ability to shoot,she would.
 
BlessYourHeart said:
They both came from small gyms. They both have/had trainers who never pushed them. And their gyms didn't any other top fighters beyond themselves to push them in training.
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Rhonda was training with professional male MMA fighters, this is more than enough for her. WMMA fighters have it easier finding elite training partners if they are willing to train with men in the gyms.

Rhonda's problems came from she wasn't all that great on the feet and moved away from her strengths. She seemed determined to prove she was a "fighter" by standing instead of focusing where she was untouchable on the mat. I believe she was mentally shot and the losses messed with her feeling invulnerable before that. Personally I think she needed a good sports phycologist to continue, but at the end of the day she didn't want to tarnish her earning ability outside the UFC by fighting again. I think it was a very wise choice.
 
true_fan said:
They both are not naturally gifted athletes. Conor gets winded after one round and Ronda she can’t learn how to box. They honestly are lucky to go that far due to the UFC hyping machine
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That's stupid.

Connor got on a very good hot streak and flatlined a lot of good fighters.

If he was a hype job Chad Mendes would have stopped him.

You can argue Ronda was a bit of a one trick pony, but the overall all level of women's mma was a dumpster fire. She beat the people in front of her and stopped them.

The hype machine wasn't arm barring those broads.
 
Ronda broke mentally under the pressure of being in the spotlight all the time. Drugs, money and fame got Conor.

Well that and he never really belonged at LW. Too many fighters are better than him at LW
 
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