Columbus day is now indigenous peoples day

hillelslovak87 said:
The unique brutality of him and his men led Bartolome de las Casas to issue a formal apology and renunciation of the enterprise due to his christian faith. He released the Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies after going to the new world as a boy and spending years there after sailing on Columbus' second voyage, then denounced the enterprise before the monarch, pushing for indigenous rights.

Nobody gave a shit because the money was flowing, but nonetheless, his life was dedicated to remediating the effects of what Columbus and his men wrought.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwih9u2Kk4jtAhVBFjQIHey7DacQFjADegQIARAC&url=http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/amerbegin/contact/text7/casas_destruction.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1pl4hoEg-bdO6vI_a8pBOZ



You'd think the hard righties would want some blond haired, blue eyed Aryan man representing their viking heritage to have a holiday, not some spaniard guy...........
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I don't think Bartolomé was in Hispaniola at the time of Columbus, Columbus was recalled(in chains) in 1500, Bartolomé went to Hispaniola in 1502.
Most likely, the barbarity he saw was done by the Spanish nobles that replaced Columbus. Columbus was an Italian(Ligurian or Genoese at the time) of lowly birth and the nobler Spaniards hated him, that's probably the reason he was accused of being a bad governor and arrested.

MicroBrew said:
Right he didn't set foot in North America, yet soo many on the right are really peeved off at doing away with Columbus day. We have a Leif Erickson day, so why isn't that enough ?
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I don't care, I find it bizarre how 19th century Americans started romanticizing Columbus as the founder of their country. They even made epic poetry with Columbus talking with an angel in the Columbiad.
Having said that, it's pretty obvious the reason "the left" wants to get rid of Columbus is not due to the historical facts about the man itself but because he represents a vision they abhor.
Namely that Europeans conquered the Americas and subjugated the natives and created the world's most powerful country. Everybody else contributions were marginal. Sure, the Indians had domesticated important crops such as maize and slave labor helped, but it was a succession of Christian White Men who mattered most. They were the ones that idealized the country, invented its political system and advanced its science. Columbus was, in a way, the first (given the limitations of what he actually did).
He is also a symbol of the great divergence.

Leif Erikson was ahead of his time but he didn't have the cartographic or navigational skills to know what he was really doing. He reached Canada and went back* because there was no way to settle there with the level of technology at his disposal. He is basically a curiosity. His exploits were forgotten due to their irrelevancy, while Columbus might be one of the most influential persons to ever live:
-He indirectly caused the collapse of 2 major empires
-Elevated Spain to a world power
-Announced (what we used to call discover, but apparently some leftists now claim the Indians discovered America) to the world the existence of a major landmass(the news would soon reach the muslim world and even China)
-Caused a revolution in agriculture due to the exchange of species between the new and the old world. Etc.

*L'Anse aux Meadows is maybe a settlement but it might just be a boat repair area or just a stopover for voyages around the region.
 
Bargey said:
Didn’t think you could back it up beyond....”he was so mean to indigenous peoples!!....”

He did good deeds and bad deeds but if what he did was so bad according to standards of the time, he would have been locked up in a Spanish cell for the latter part of his life. The fact is you owe him your very life and existence
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Wrong. His deeds were barbarous for the time. The only problem with condemnations from people like de las Casas who saw those atrocities firsthand was that they were condemning the brutality while gold rolled in, thus nobody really cared.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...truction.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1pl4hoEg-bdO6vI_a8pBOZ
 
Cuauhtemoc said:
I don't think Bartolomé was in Hispaniola at the time of Columbus, Columbus was recalled(in chains) in 1500, Bartolomé went to Hispaniola in 1502.
Most likely, the barbarity he saw was done by the Spanish nobles that replaced Columbus. Columbus was an Italian(Ligurian or Genoese at the time) of lowly birth and the nobler Spaniards hated him, that's probably the reason he was accused of being a bad governor and arrested.


I don't care, I find it bizarre how 19th century Americans started romanticizing Columbus as the founder of their country. They even made epic poetry with Columbus talking with an angel in the Columbiad.
Having said that, it's pretty obvious the reason "the left" wants to get rid of Columbus is not due to the historical facts about the man itself but because he represents a vision they abhor.
Namely that Europeans conquered the Americas and subjugated the natives and created the world's most powerful country. Everybody else contributions were marginal. Sure, the Indians had domesticated important crops such as maize and slave labor helped, but it was a succession of Christian White Men who mattered most. They were the ones that idealized the country, invented its political system and advanced its science. Columbus was, in a way, the first (given the limitations of what he actually did).
He is also a symbol of the great divergence.

Leif Erikson was ahead of his time but he didn't have the cartographic or navigational skills to know what he was really doing. He reached Canada and went back* because there was no way to settle there with the level of technology at his disposal. He is basically a curiosity. His exploits were forgotten due to their irrelevancy, while Columbus might be one of the most influential persons to ever live:
-He indirectly caused the collapse of 2 major empires
-Elevated Spain to a world power
-Announced (what we used to call discover, but apparently some leftists now claim the Indians discovered America) to the world the existence of a major landmass(the news would soon reach the muslim world and even China)
-Caused a revolution in agriculture due to the exchange of species between the new and the old world. Etc.

*L'Anse aux Meadows is maybe a settlement but it might just be a boat repair area or just a stopover for voyages around the region.
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Yes, but it was Columbus who set up the barbarous manner in which his men, and subsequent crews, treated the natives.

Can't imagine being a little kid and see a bunch of grown men who don't look like me having their hands summarily cut off by grown men who do look like me. Nuts.
 
Cuauhtemoc said:
I don't think Bartolomé was in Hispaniola at the time of Columbus, Columbus was recalled(in chains) in 1500, Bartolomé went to Hispaniola in 1502.
Most likely, the barbarity he saw was done by the Spanish nobles that replaced Columbus. Columbus was an Italian(Ligurian or Genoese at the time) of lowly birth and the nobler Spaniards hated him, that's probably the reason he was accused of being a bad governor and arrested.


I don't care, I find it bizarre how 19th century Americans started romanticizing Columbus as the founder of their country. They even made epic poetry with Columbus talking with an angel in the Columbiad.
Having said that, it's pretty obvious the reason "the left" wants to get rid of Columbus is not due to the historical facts about the man itself but because he represents a vision they abhor.
Namely that Europeans conquered the Americas and subjugated the natives and created the world's most powerful country. Everybody else contributions were marginal. Sure, the Indians had domesticated important crops such as maize and slave labor helped, but it was a succession of Christian White Men who mattered most. They were the ones that idealized the country, invented its political system and advanced its science. Columbus was, in a way, the first (given the limitations of what he actually did).
He is also a symbol of the great divergence.

Leif Erikson was ahead of his time but he didn't have the cartographic or navigational skills to know what he was really doing. He reached Canada and went back* because there was no way to settle there with the level of technology at his disposal. He is basically a curiosity. His exploits were forgotten due to their irrelevancy, while Columbus might be one of the most influential persons to ever live:
-He indirectly caused the collapse of 2 major empires
-Elevated Spain to a world power
-Announced (what we used to call discover, but apparently some leftists now claim the Indians discovered America) to the world the existence of a major landmass(the news would soon reach the muslim world and even China)
-Caused a revolution in agriculture due to the exchange of species between the new and the old world. Etc.

*L'Anse aux Meadows is maybe a settlement but it might just be a boat repair area or just a stopover for voyages around the region.
Click to expand...
The irony is that Leif probably knew where he was going whereas Columbus definitely did not know where he was going.

The left isn't opposed to Columbus because he didn't even set foot in North America, the left opposes him because of his genocidal attitudes towards the natives and his treatment of the natives. He is like a posterboy for the evils of colonialism.
 
MicroBrew said:
The irony is that Leif probably knew where he was going whereas Columbus definitely did not know where he was going.

The left isn't opposed to Columbus because he didn't even set foot in North America, the left opposes him because of his genocidal attitudes towards the natives and his treatment of the natives. He is like a posterboy for the evils of colonialism.
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Leif should have published his findings.
 
44nutman said:
I can't remember how many Electoral Votes do the Bahamas, have and who did they vote for? Does Trump have lawyers there as well.
Columbus never stepped foot in America. I am cool with Leif Erickson day because he actually set foot in the United States. Also the Chinese were in California, long before Columbus went the wrong way to India.
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Again your reasoning does not line up with anything that happened after CC discovered the new world. I mean nothing you say makes any kind of sense. The Colombian Exchange is real and had major impacts on the entire world. Even isolationist Qing China was massively impacted by the silver inflows as well as the introduction of potatoes which allowed otherwise uncultivated areas to be farmed. Your retorts are empty and have no ring to them. CC was one fo the most impactful humans in history, and going 'duh he never stepped foot in the US proper' does not take away his impact and significance.
The US is a direct result of CC and those that followed him.
 
MicroBrew said:
No one makes games or writes comics burrowing from Genoese culture , but Viking myths feature a lot in games and superhero tales.
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Genoa_Pavise.png


Ahem
And also CC was contracted out by the Spanish Empire. Genoa was more or less under the sphere of Spanish or rather Aragonese influence at that time.
 
I call BS. All people groups have migrated at one time or another.
 
People just love being contrarians. Legitimately no one was celebrating the slaughter of natives during thanksgiving or Columbus Day. It wasn't even a fragment of a thought in any of our minds. Then dems demanded that we make it an issue
 
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I think Columbus day should have been changed to Colin Kapernick day. People of Color (POC) would become much more engaged in teh country if leaders in their communities were honored this way.
 
As italian, i fail to see the big deal, i think USA have far bigger problems

Problems that born from same source, but still
 
Indigenous people are overrated. Just know that they would have sacrificed you to jobu if they could.
 
MicroBrew said:
So then why bother even celebrating Thanksgiving or Christianity, since these are all traditions and beliefs from the past.
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Good point. We should forget all of the past; America became great because of forward-thinking people.

Also, how did this thread become about statues?
 
Tom Ato said:
Why not have both?
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Bro I’d settle for one. We’ve never had Columbus Day here in Hawai`i (dude has nothing to do with us) but now that it’s indigenous people’s day I feel like we should get on that at least.

Edit: I guess we call it discoverers day but nobody gets the day off afaik.
 
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