Crime Cohen pleads guilty, says he lied

[LangfordBarrow]

So you believe a charge regarding Russian Collusion is still coming? Thst was the pretense of this whole investigation. You can't make up a reason to investigate somebody and then use crimes you may find throughout the investigation to justify investigating to begin with.

Now if the opening of the investigation was legit, I'd have no problem with crimes being uncovered in the process of the investigation, even those completely unrelated

The investigation is legit. It started over Flynn and Comey. Soon we'll know everything Flynn gave up.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

That's just what's public information.

Yet you're acting as if you know more...

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Well it'san illegal campaign donation from a foreign government as it is an in kind contribution

Information isnt a campaign contribution. What a completely asinine thing to suggest. A kind word is valuable. Are you gonna say it would be a campaign contribution to offer encouragement?

Therefore we have to go by the lay definition of collusion:
"secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others."
By that standard the trump tower meeting and the effort to keep russian contact from the public via perjury is most definitely collusion

Perjury? Go on

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

The investigation is legit. It started over Flynn and Comey. Soon we'll know everything Flynn gave up.

Considering Flynn is basically getting off scot-free per Mueller’s recommendation, despite being a treacherous POS, I’d say he must have coughed up something pretty damn juicy.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Yet you're acting as if you know more...

I don't need to know more to think it should be investigated. I've been saying we need to wait for the end of the investigation to know what evidence Mueller has.

 

[Quipling]

So you believe a charge regarding Russian Collusion is still coming? Thst was the pretense of this whole investigation. You can't make up a reason to investigate somebody and then use crimes you may find throughout the investigation to justify investigating to begin with.

Now if the opening of the investigation was legit, I'd have no problem with crimes being uncovered in the process of the investigation, even those completely unrelated

You are wrong.
Some of the defendants have already tried to make the argument you are now making. They lost.

First, as a matter of law: an alleged failure of a prosecutor to establish the charges underlying the initial basis for an investigation is not a basis to conclude that the investigation was invalid. The defendant has to show that the basis was actually fictitious.

Second, you're wrong about what the basis for the investigation was. It wasn't "collusion"; that was a subcategory

The basis for the SCO was, and this is a quote: "to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian Government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election."

Said interference has already been established and the investigation validated thereby. The investigation of that interference brought a lot of other things to light.

The letter also mentioned subcategories, such as "any links and/or coordination between the Russian Government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump."

This is what you're referring to as "collusion", but it's not limited to collusion. It's also on the same level of importance as another subheading of "any other crimes."

It may apply to the initial warrant. It would seem that everything under the sun is being found with the "collusion" warrant that is not collusion.

There was no "initial" "collusion warrant." There was an appointment letter about investigating Russian interference. Warrants and appointment letters are entirely different things. The fruit of the poisonious tree doctrine is about 4th amendment issues. Not appointments. (Incidentally, the appointment of the SCO has been challenged in court and has been repeatedly upheld).

And Cohen's investigation did not even come out of the "collusion" investigation. This is something that you should know, and is why I asked you who you thought would be helped by the poisonious tree argument.

 

[syct23]

Considering Flynn is basically getting off scot-free per Mueller’s recommendation, despite being a treacherous POS, I’d say he must have coughed up something pretty damn juicy.

I'm guessing the White Russian did as well, considering she just plead guilt y...

 

[DEN]

Information isnt a campaign contribution. What a completely asinine thing to suggest. A kind word is valuable. Are you gonna say it would be a campaign contribution to offer encouragement?


Perjury? Go on

Well it was to obtain illicit information, which has value. Sorry those are the facts.
Flynn lied to the feds about his Russia contacts and Cohen lied to Congress about the trump tower meeting to congress at the behest of trump. You can pretend it didnt happen all you want but those are the facts.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

"I have never met with or had any conversation with any Russians or any foreign officials concerning any type of interference with any campaign or election in the United States... further I have no knowledge of any such conversations by anyone connected to the Trump campaign ... and the suggestion that I participated in any conclusion that I was aware of any collusion with the Russian government to hurt this country which I have served with honor for 35 years... is an appalling and detestable lie."
Oops, forgot about Kislyak.

LOL

So many lies, so many Russians. Sessions, Individual 1 Jr., Flynn, Cohen, etc and so forth and on and on

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

I don't need to know more to think it should be investigated. I've been saying we need to wait for the end of the investigation to know what evidence Mueller has.

Just seems cyclical. You guys start acting like you know everything until somebody presses you. Then suddenly its "Let's wait til the investigation is over"

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Well it was to obtain illicit information, which has value

There was nothing to suggest it was illicit information that was being offered. Again, unless quid pro quo was there, a campaign finance violation being committed by recieving information is asinine.

Encouragement is valuable. Would you charge somebody with a finance violation for receiving encouragement?

 

[regmma123]

Diaper Don

Like a Dapper Don, minus the Dapper

It takes a special kind of confirmation bias to come to the conclusion that A is guilty of X because B is guilty of Y and is associated with A, though Y does not equal X. The logic just doesn't add up.

Please, explain the calculus.

birds of a feather

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

birds of a feather

Where there's smock, there's fire

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Just seems cyclical. You guys start acting like you know everything until somebody presses you. Then suddenly its "Let's wait til the investigation is over"

I don't believe I have made that assertion. Trump sure has been acting guilty, shifting his story, trying to obstruct, giving false narratives that are reinforced by his cronies in the media, etc, but I don't claim to have any inside information.

 

[DEN]

There was nothing to suggest it was illicit information that was being offered. Again, unless quid pro quo was there, a campaign finance violation being committed by recieving information is asinine.

Encouragement is valuable. Would you charge somebody with a finance violation for receiving encouragement?

The email said the meeting was to obtain dirt on Hillary from the russian government. They didnt say they wanted to give junior a pat on the back.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

There was nothing to suggest it was illicit information that was being offered. Again, unless quid pro quo was there, a campaign finance violation being committed by recieving information is asinine.

Encouragement is valuable. Would you charge somebody with a finance violation for receiving encouragement?

Believe what you want but it won't make the investigation or any crimes it uncovers go away.

 

[DEN]

I don't believe I have made that assertion. Trump sure has been acting guilty, shifting his story, trying to obstruct, giving false narratives that are reinforced by his cronies in the media, etc, but I don't claim to have any inside information.

He's just obfuscating in the hope that will shield trump from indictment. It's quite clear and obvious that trump junior went to a meeting with the Russian government to obtain illicit information.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Believe what you want but it won't make the investigation or any crimes it uncovers go away.

This is what will bite him in the ass.

(C) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation into these matters.

There's an obligation under DOJ ethics rules to present a Grand Jury with significant exculpatory information so that they can understand why they should issue a true bill or a no true bill.

People love to say that a prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich, but they leave out the rest of the meal. There's salad, and mashed potatoes and corn and the main course is Porterhouse steaks with a nice Cabernet

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

The email said the meeting was to obtain dirt on Hillary from the russian government. They didnt say they wanted to give junior a pat on the back.

receiving dirt isn't illegal despite how bad you want it to be. Had he paid for it, then yes it would be....

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Believe what you want but it won't make the investigation or any crimes it uncovers go away.

So you stand behind the fact that information counts as a campaign contribution of monetary value? Any and all information? Who decides what information counts and what doesn't?