Before I get to your individual comments:
One of you told me that anyone can google search any pov & find someone supporting it. However, the quality of the reference was left out of his comment. In this case I have quoted WHO, CDC, & WFP all whom are "
premium" references. Neither the CDC nor the WHO support shutdowns. The thousands of scientists & doctors involved in the Barrington Declaration believe "heard immunity" is the best way to get through this, & that requires healthy people getting out there & getting over it.
Most importantly, the consequences of shutdowns are clearly expressed by the WFP which shows us a doubling & more to come from poverty due to shutdowns. The WHO is saying similar things. You have to recognize what these organizations represent. They are the authority.
WFP -
"Even short-term famine has a devastating long-term impact. What it does to a child is unspeakable."
- 130 Million "additional" people lead to the brink of starvation this year is the biggest up-tick since 1964 when this United Nations org began
- 100x less is the number of deaths from Covid (mostly people with pre-existing conditions) this year at 1.3 million.
WHO urges world leaders to stop using lockdowns to fight Covid Contagion. "lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer.
It seems that we may well have a doubling of world poverty by next year. Seems that we may well have at least a doubling of child malnutrition"
latest statement from the CDC website - Basically says that people should "consider" restricting travel & avoiding large gatherings... but then later when asked explain that further... they say it's because of the possibility of them meeting with a high risk person. iow...
this is not a "shut-down society situation." This is more about people who are high risk need to stay home & be avoided or distanced from. They are the ones that need to be locked down... not the other 99.5% of us.
Barrington Declaration (thousand of of doctors & scientists signed to show agreement)
Quote - “The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk,”
How are we defining shutdowns here? A suggestion of restriction of movement and gathering just seems like a degree of a shutdown, I mean we currently aren't completely shutdown, but just have restrictions in place. Trying to reconcile this word, because maybe we do agree based on that term.
Yes, for example restricting cruise lines, disney world, movie theaters etc... (the strip clubs) this is all under the umbrella of a "shut-down" in my definition. Anything that's taking a person's well being which leads to making people suffer & leads to poverty is the problem we compare to whether it's worth it to close the economy down for this. It has led to the WFP recognizing their
largest "scale up" in starving people since it began in 1964, to the tune of 130 million ADDITIONAL.
That figure will continue to grow long after heard immunity is achieved & even a vaccine is available due to long term damage the shutdowns have caused to the economy. Meanwhile myself & 99.5% of the rest of the population will not die from it, so why are we destroying the lives of 130 million people, & counting?
Had this been more lethal, then we could justify these things. but 100x the starvation level poverty being created in addition to however many people are dying from the lockdowns themselves is pretty much the end of the discussion imo...
You believe over 2,000 people a day are dying some days due to the lockdowns?
I apologize for saying that without knowing the numbers. It's certainly not zero though as some would lead you to believe, but my point is
comparing the cost of the cure vs the effects of the disease ie ...the "Up-tick" in people nearing starvation this year to the amount of Covid deaths is a great comparison that we do have numbers for. The biggest humanitarian org in the world... the United Nation's WFP org... has recognized an ADDITIONAL 130 million people being led to the brink of starvation & says this is the biggest up-tick since 1964 when the org started.
1.3 million covid assisted deaths
130 million lives ruined & on the brink of starvation and counting
- + whatever the actual number is that have died from shutdowns. (suicide, drug overdose, starvation & even other complications caused by poverty.)
That's the discussion.
I'm still not convinced the deaths are not on par, but
the WHO as well as the CDC are both recommending the world not resort to lock-downs... so my point is validated.
Nanny state? What fuckin state do you live in? Cause mine sure as shit aint doing anything for us besides promoting the spread of Covid
I guess I need to amend that because you're not the first who didn't understand what I meant by "nanny state." It's true that your government handed out billions to trillions for not only unemployment benefits, but added more money to them... as well as gave forgivable loans to failing businesses & is also stopping evictions from the 50% of our population that's currently behind on payments. As well as many other programs it can't afford.
A nanny is someone who takes care of another. That's what I meant, is that... the government is offering all these programs to take care of us because we can't take care of ourselves apparently. These offerings are us accepting the government as our nanny. If you are in the united states... you are apart of the "nanny state" right now... even if you aren't participating in their programs.
The problem is that they can't continue this... & their mortgage/rent subsidies end in first quarter next year. Even if they extend those programs, this doesn't end well & the repercussions will take years to decades to recover. If you think the Rona is a bad problem, the financial state of the world is a hell of a lot bigger problem & it ain't even close.
And you're acting the qualities that make America fat aren't also those that spread covid: being gluttonous self centered goobers ignoring what is best for their health in pursuit of short term dopamine to please retards in a shitty society.
Strangely, (though that lack of discipline doesn't represent all of us...) that is exactly my point... but you seem to be making it out like we differ on this pov.
I'm saying that instead of forcing everyone who's healthy to lockdown, how about you force the fat asses to put down their fucking cheeseburgers & grab some fooking vitamins & try exercising.
At the point you know you should boost your immune system to fight a pandemic, & you choose not too... that's on you.
It would be different if this weren't such a mild pandemic.
I agree with the initial few weeks shutdown, to get the hospitals up to par & figure out exactly what the severity of the threat is... & at that point, all these fat asses should've went to work on themselves instead of wagging the finger at me to comply with their fucking lockdowns.
Teh Fook? We're killing the middle & lower class that involves a hell of a lot of kids that were immune to Rona.
so no way are more shutdowns worth the cost of the 130 milliion people and counting being pushed to the brink of starvation.
/rant
Obviously some people are older & more frail & so might not be able to exercise enough, but you can take vitamins no matter how old you are, you can eat healthier & change your gut biome. I haven't heard form a single high risk person doing any of that, but they sure as fuck don't hesitate to wag that fucking finger at someone else to save them when they can't even be bothered to save themselves.