Closed Guard VS. Open Guard-- and why?

[HEAVY GRAPPLER]

I once received this advice from Rickson BB Shane Rice:

"Bro, if I had legs like yours, I'd NEVER open my guard." So I didn't. For years.

But it got to the point where if people opened my guard, I really didn't kow what to do and got passed easily. Now, I am comfortable enough to play an open guard, too. And when I get the chance, I lock it up again. Now my style favours open guard for sweeps and closed for submissions.

Don't focus too much on one or the other.

 

[177ark]

Open guard because you can't attack your opponent if your guard is closed.

Not sure what you meant, but I'l take a stab...

I think you're taking the term "closed guard" too literal. Closed guard doesn't necessarily mean ankles crossed, trapping the opponent in your guard. Closed guard is basically when your opponent is inside your guard with his body in close, inside your knees. If your legs are uncrossed and your feet are on his hips, you're still playing closed guard.

Open guard is typically any guard, besides half guard, where the opponent is far back, past your knees, and you are forced to control distance with your feet, knees, or shins, as opposed to your thighs and calves.

 

[iheartthemount]

I've been using a similar hierarchy, but a different order.
I have it ranked 1- Open, 2- Closed, 3- Half.

I make them fight thru 1, then 2, then 3. I can sweep or finish at any stage, and if I get in trouble, I replace up the ladder.

well it depends what i am going for. put i defiantly have no qualms about transitioning in this order...

pulling to closed guard
transitioning to open guard
then moving into a half or a deep half guard for sweeps.

 

[Mat Nemesis**]

I didn't know you can sweep opponents by keeping your legs closed. Or armbar them. Or triangle them (unless they are really stupid).

Its common knowledge that most attacks revolve around OPENING your guard.

Sure, you have a collar choke, kimura and a guillotine, but really, closed guard is just used to break posture and/or stall. And when you do attack from inside your closed guard, chances are you will have to open it to move around to finish.

lol, you came back to argue this.

opening your guard to throw up a triangle or leg over face for arm bar is not playing open guard.

like a hip bump sweep from closed guard-- you have to open it to do the sweep but it is still a sweep from closed guard.

this is like a guy arguing that opening the closed guard is passing the guard.


anywho-- i like closed guard because as mentioned above it is another layer, but contrary to the TS I think it is an advantage to have the guy thinking about opening the guard, plus making the guy open your closed guard can compromise his positioning.

also, it is so demoralizing when you cannot open some one's guard or as soon as the open it you close it again.

i think it was a match that hillary had in the pan ams and the girl could not open her guard-- i was like that is so frustrating for the other person. i think it was the gold medal match.

 

[SylarNY]

Not sure what you meant, but I'l take a stab...

I think you're taking the term "closed guard" too literal. Closed guard doesn't necessarily mean ankles crossed, trapping the opponent in your guard. Closed guard is basically when your opponent is inside your guard with his body in close, inside your knees. If your legs are uncrossed and your feet are on his hips, you're still playing closed guard.

Open guard is typically any guard, besides half guard, where the opponent is far back, past your knees, and you are forced to control distance with your feet, knees, or shins, as opposed to your thighs and calves.

Ah, then yes, I guess I define closed guard differently then some other people do.

 

[SylarNY]

Also, I play a lot of DLR. So open guard.

 

[newerest]

I like closed guard most. when i get posture broken I go to rubber guard or get a different grip and work sweeps

my overhook guard is entirely based on open guard, however. much better options from the overhook imo when it's open.

 

[Bruce Calavera]

Open guard because you can't attack your opponent if your guard is closed.

Come on man. That's what you tell 2 week guys who vice grip you not people who actually know how to use a closed guard.

 

[adoniscomplex]

Ah, then yes, I guess I define closed guard differently then some other people do.

at my school we do it the same way man
we refer any of the normal closed guard stuff as guard and then other guards by their names ie butterfly , del riva , x ect
so when i saw this thread i was slightly thrown off



right now ive been working on butterfly guard alot but generally im a close guard person if i have to be on my back
which i prefer not to be

 

[ozyabbas]

I don't think closed guard gives you many options for sweeps mainly due to the fact that it is difficult to take away a persons base in closed guard.

I find that its an excellent position to sweep people from just as they have opened the guard and its excellent for setting up omoplatas.

I do find that closed guard is a much more offensive weapon in no-gi.

 

[akdms]

I'm better at closed guard, but I hate the feeling stuck under my opponent. Still, it was much easier for me to learn so I relied on that for a long time. I love open guard and have been working on that a lot as of late. No one particular guard though -- I keep my hips moving and switch between them, depending on what my opponent gives me. One of these days I'll spend the time to seriously learn a couple open guards that I can use as my "go to".

 

[iheartthemount]

I don't think closed guard gives you many options for sweeps mainly due to the fact that it is difficult to take away a persons base in closed guard.

I find that its an excellent position to sweep people from just as they have opened the guard and its excellent for setting up omoplatas.

I do find that closed guard is a much more offensive weapon in no-gi.

well i think the reason closed guard is more preferable in no gi is not necessarily because of the general strength of the closed guard (which there are many) but because of the inherent dangers of working open guard in no gi. without grips to work with, open guard can get pretty sticky, especially in the transition game.

people can hate on wearing gi pants in no gi but i wear them specifically to help me with my open guard game but it pales in comparison to when i'm in a full gi.

i would also have to admit that i move a lot more to my butterfly in no gi then i do in gi.

 

[FollowYourBliss]

I didn't know you can sweep opponents by keeping your legs closed. Or armbar them. Or triangle them (unless they are really stupid).

Its common knowledge that most attacks revolve around OPENING your guard.

Sure, you have a collar choke, kimura and a guillotine, but really, closed guard is just used to break posture and/or stall. And when you do attack from inside your closed guard, chances are you will have to open it to move around to finish.

Oh God. It's posts like this that make me feel so good about my game/knowledge.

 

[iheartthemount]

Oh God. It's posts like this that make me feel so good about my game/knowledge.

word. someone should tell people like marcello and the like that have the sickest guillotine that closed guard is done.

i love doing crazy shit in bjj and having weird options but ultimately i like to think that bjj and almost any contact/fighting sport is like what bruce lee would mention in that it why should you practice a 100 moves a few times a day when you could practice one or a few moves a 100 times a day. while it would be nice to have several moves all at a BB level, my goal was to always have one move that was just so dominant that i could finish my opponents even if they knew it was coming.

but that's just me. and i've fought guys with guillotines and kimura's like that.

 

[SylarNY]

I understand I misinterpreted the term "closed guard" from what the OP meant, but damn, I guess I left myself open for people who only read the first page of comments before bashing someone.

 

[nerraw]

Closed guard happens a lot more if I start standing; in class we start on our knees and I generally start in open guard if I end up on the bottom.

 

[pachanga]

Like some, I have historically preferred Open Guard over closed guard. Not for the technique variance but rather because my closed guard was horrible, until recently that is. I used to have a hard time controlling my opponent and maintaining closed guard. Especially in No-Gi. I recently watched the SBGi 2009 dvd set though and had a major epiphany and am excited to be working a effective closed guard at the moment.

I suck at both.

But anyway, tell us more about this DVD...

 

[andrehbjj]

Here is my opinion (and a shameless plug for my closed guard DVD):

The first chapter on the DVD describes the benefits of the closed guard. Here is what I think those benefits are:

1) It is an efficient position in which you can rest while your opponent has to work in order to open it. What I mean is that if you are in a match, it takes a lot less effort to maintain a closed guard than it does to open it. The effort the person on top exerts to open the guard can work in your favor later in the match.

2) The close hip contact allows you to manipulate his base more immediately.

3) It is a position where you can set up your attacks without having to simulatneously worry about defending the guard pass.

 

[thegreenblender]

I use close guard. It's rediculously underrated, and so many counters that even if your opponent does somehow manage to open it, a sweep is usually right there. If the sweep fails it's easy to go back to closed.

Everyonce in a while brown belts and black belts have visited my gym and tried to stand up in my closed guard, before they lose their base and give me this serious "what the fuck was that" look. These aren't big secrets either, just basic guard retention, but in my area the c.guard is so rare in upperlevel competition that it takes them a while to adjust.

People really have a very blanket view of it. The trend is, people perceived open guard as more varied and complicated, and therefore more advanced. It is true that you can't claim to have a good guard if you have no open guard, but there is still plenty of depth to explore in closed guard.

 

[Blackguilt]

The DVD has some seminar footage of Matt Thornton and Eric Hemphill teaching some techniques from Mount, Closed guard, Defending your back along with some stand up techniques from the guys at Straight Blast Gym. It was the Mount and Closed Guard DVD's that at my current level (still a white) that I got the most out of.

The closed guard "epiphany" that i referred to in my initial post is just digging my heels towards my ass to close that space and plant my legs/hips on top of my uke. I love closed guard now, as long as I control the "space" as i see fit, I lock down my opponent until I'm ready to open my guard at the right time to attack. Just being able to maintain my closed guard and break their posture has basically gave me a jump start on the way to a higher level in my own personal game.


I by no means meant this to become a DVD review, but the content of the DVD is so straight forward and simple it would be good for anybody to watch. They go over a lot of the concepts behind the moves, which personally, I care a whole hell of a lot more about rather than flashy finishers or advanced techniques such as Cyborg's tornado guard. Stuff like x-guard, rubber guard, spider guard are basically worthless to me IMO if i don't have a rock solid foundation of the basics to begin with. I would much rather break my opponent down methodically than spaz out in a scramble style open guard and hope to hell i catch them in a heel hook or something.