Elections Clinton vs. Trump Polls thread, v2

[mcdowels]

Pretty impressive to be the biggest liar in such a group.

wow, a hillary supporter calling someone a liar

 

[panamaican]

Being on the Board of Directors at Wal-Mart, during which they campaigned against labor unions for their workers. Supporting the contras in Nicaragua, & the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia. Voting for the Iraq war. As Secretary of State: the destruction of the secular state of Libya, the military coup in Honduras, the current regime change attempt in Syria. Taking many millions of dollars from the big banks to give them speeches, where the press is barred and transcripts are not released.

Without mentioning emails or Benghazi, there is a laundry list of criticisms I can come up with for her. None of which get much consideration.

See, I don't see those things as "scandals" so much as standard political positions/actions that will be agreeable to some and disagreeable to others. The stuff that every general election is going to feature to some degree. To that extent, yes, her supporters will mostly ignore it because lots of other politicians were making the same decisions and there's nothing illegal about making those decisions.

The emails and Benghazi are closer to what I'd term scandals. The DNC sabotage of Sanders is a scandal. What Wikileaks has might be a scandal.

Similarly, I don't think Trump has much in the way of scandals, just actions and statements that people disagree with.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

The GOP refuses to acknowledge the Hispanic vote in this country. It has dropped in support for a republican every election cycle and is at an all time low with Trump.

They will never be able to compete with the shameless pandering of the liberal anyway.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Kind of funny that anyone would think that's a reason to vote Trump.

I didn't suggest it is. Again, her supporters are so quick to blurt Trump's name out as a response to any criticism of Hillary. Which is exactly my point.

 

[Jack V Savage]

See, I don't see those things as "scandals" so much as standard political positions/actions that will be agreeable to some and disagreeable to others. The stuff that every general election is going to feature to some degree. To that extent, yes, her supporters will mostly ignore it because lots of other politicians were making the same decisions and there's nothing illegal about making those decisions.

Yeah, most of those things aren't scandals (did he use that term? I don't recall). They are things that are taken into consideration. If you think that serving on the board of a public company (which will, of course, try to minimize labor costs) is evil, you're going to have a problem with it. If not, not.

I was thinking that he was referring to stuff that the WR right has been pushing, which is mostly ridiculous.

The emails and Benghazi are closer to what I'd term scandals. The DNC sabotage of Sanders is a scandal. What Wikileaks has might be a scandal.

Similarly, I don't think Trump has much in the way of scandals, just actions and statements that people disagree with.

There was no actual sabotage of Sanders. No actions taken. Just shit talking, pretty much. And Clinton was already cleared in both the email and Benghazi things. That's why people have been reduced to acting like not following best practices for email-server management is some kind of horrifying thing for which she should be imprisoned or executed.

I didn't suggest it is. Again, her supporters are so quick to blurt Trump's name out as a response to any criticism of Hillary. Which is exactly my point.

You don't get the whole "elections" thing, do you?

 

[RhinoRush]

Nobody's nervous, anymore.

Now we're just pissed we're stuck with Clinton for four years.

You mean 8 years?

 

[Damien Karras]

Nice attempt at doom and gloom, but perhaps you should stop judging by polls with shady polling methods like talking to more registered Dems than Repubs. Not to mention that Trump will draw many unregistered voters and independents.

The Sea Hag's support is largely artificial. How much energy is behind her? How many of her supporters do you even know?

Currently, she's struggling to fill gymnasiums, while Trump is drawing thousands to his rallies. And the debates haven't even started. This will go down to the wire, as always, but only because the Dems will do everything they can to rig the election.

Hillary rally:

Trump rally (with thousands of people watching outside):

You question the methodology of the polling systems but then you present the most subjective and unscientific "evidence" to your claim. Bravo

 

[ripskater]

Rip's past posts about a flat earth lead me to that question. What did I misinterpret? Him making a mockery of epilepsy or suggesting Hilary is possessed by demons?

If running trolls out of conversations so adults can talk is being an asshole, I'm proudly an asshole. He's intentionally detrimental to actual discussions on serious issues. Why should I address him as if he's anything but that?

I'm not a flat earther. But I am open to the theory of it and I will listen to videos about it. Some things make sense with our current models and some do not.

I don't mock epilepsy and never have.

I also don't know if Hillary is demonically possessed or not. But she is certainly influenced by one.
I know HIllary is you're girl and you're probably mad that I point out her problems.

And good luck at running me out of conversations.

 

[RhinoRush]

I didn't suggest it is. Again, her supporters are so quick to blurt Trump's name out as a response to any criticism of Hillary. Which is exactly my point.

Exactly. This is the hate election. Everyone is voting based purely on their hatred of the other side, not because they think their own side is right. America is really in a sad state now. It's basically two countries being governed by one government. I won't be surprised if shit gets real in the next 10 years.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Exactly. This is the hate election. Everyone is voting based purely on their hatred of the other side, not because they think their own side is right. America is really in a sad state now. It's basically two countries being governed by one government. I won't be surprised if shit gets real in the next 10 years.

I firmly believe the only thing that is going to unite the country is more honest communication. Both sides need to take off their team jerseys, and start to have real conversations. I'm hoping that the unprecedented connectivity made possible by the internet is going to start to facilitate that. I think we're already seeing big signs of that starting to happen. The 2-party system is beyond antiquated as a system to serve the People.

 

[RhinoRush]

So when this election is over, can we ban all the Trump posters? Can we get some account bets going on? Can I get an amen?!

Says the white belt.

 

[RhinoRush]

I firmly believe the only thing that is going to unite the country is more honest communication. Both sides need to take off their team jerseys, and start to have real conversations. I'm hoping that the unprecedented connectivity made possible by the internet is going to start to facilitate that. I think we're already seeing big signs of that starting to happen. The 2-party system is beyond antiquated as a system to serve the People.

I admire that, but I believe it will go the other way. The internet is a big part of the hate cycle imo.

 

[Goonerview]

Wow, what a horrible week for Trump. Besides the fact he is now 8% behind Hillary (irrespective of whether you include Stein / Johnson in polls or not), there are many points that make me believe he stands no chance in hell.

Trump is behind in all swing states.

Clinton is leading New Hampshire by 15%, Pennsylvania by 11%, and Florida - which Trump needs to win at all cost - by 6%. The Clinton team knows it will win Virginia and Colorado and thus currently even air TV spots according to Politico.

Trump's support among Blacks is abysmal.

According to NBC, Clinton is leading 91% to 1% (!!) among Blacks. According to McClatchy, it is 93% to 2%. Even if Fox is right (they say he's got 4%) this still would be worse than Romney in 2012.

Millennials don't give a fuck about Trump.

Among voters below 30, Trump is on rank 4. I repeat: rank 4.

Clinton 41%
Johnson 23%
Stein 16%
Trump 9%

GOP Politicians who want to get (re-)elected are working on Anti-Trump plans.

The NYT quoted several donors and politicians who are considering when the best time is to break with Trump to save re-election and Congress majority.

The nuclear issue is a big one.

People consider Trump to be better to fight ISIS, but if you ask people who should get the nuclear codes, Clinton leads by 22 percentage points in a Fox poll.

Open questions about Trump remain.

Trump shot himself in the knee with the Khan controversy. Not only are people overwhelmingly on the soldier's family's side, we now know how Trump dodged the draft. Trump still has not published his tax documents, so there's no way to know whether he even is a billionaire. And there have been strong arguments that Melania was an illegal immigrant via visa overstay that have not been refuted so far.

His rumored economic plans are a disaster and will be torn to pieces.

If what I read is true about Trump's plans (lower corporate tax from 35 to 15%, tax cuts for all Americans), punitive tariffs for Chinese and Mexican imports of 45 and 35%, respectively (thereby starting trade wars), then I doubt people will follow him. After all, he concurrently wants to increase military spending when he reduces the amount of taxes paid by about a third. And his economic expert team is quite funny, too. Bankers, hedgefund managers, fracking and real estate folks.

It's still way to early

The pro-Brexit campaign was pretty much behind the whole time until a late surge in the last two weeks. Especially after the televised debates. Nigel Farage killed it.

 

[ineverpost]

He appeals to no one other than the former manufacturing demographic of America. Most people will not be turning out to vote this year (I predict record low turnout), but Hillary has more cult followers than Trump. I'll be working or wasting time on Sherdog, which is far more productive than standing in line for hours to pretend like the outcome of this election would make any difference to me.

 

[J. Bernie Cunningham]

I'm not a flat earther. But I am open to the theory of it and I will listen to videos about it. Some things make sense with our current models and some do not.

I don't mock epilepsy and never have.

I also don't know if Hillary is demonically possessed or not. But she is certainly influenced by one.
I know HIllary is you're girl and you're probably mad that I point out her problems.

And good luck at running me out of conversations.

Apologies, I took you completely avoiding my last post as you running. Now I know you were just waiting for the thread to move along enough for people to forget it.

But you're totally not a troll...... lol....

Flat earth isn't something a person is "open to". Use the facts at your disposal and reach a conclusion. This affects daily life for all of mankind, it isn't a matter of blowing with the windy facts. According to that theory, the truth is hidden to supress god. Why hasn't Trump gone after how fake NASA videos are or why math and geometry have been established on a false basis? Wouldn't he be part of the evil machine keeping the truth hidden?

Do yourself a favor, answer me this Rip;

With all the information at your disposal, is it possible the earth is flat? If you say yes, you're declaring an ignorance that would've been laughed at 1000 years ago.

Saying Hilary's awkward attempt at physical comedy.is a symptom of epilepsy is suggesting people with epilepsy just deal with awkward, jokey movements, not full on cognitive deterioration. It's inconsiderate and insulting. Suggesting it makes a person less fit to do their job is saying they're lesser people.

You very clearly insulted people with epilepsy.

And if Hilary is influenced by a demon, where does the demon come from? Why does it power her to such evil yet fail at controlling a cough?

Hilary's not my girl. I'm not voting for Hilary. So next time you're called out for desperately straddling the fence between troll and idiot, keep that in mind.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I firmly believe the only thing that is going to unite the country is more honest communication.

This I agree with, though you can hardly say that your approach in this thread has been a good example of that.

Both sides need to take off their team jerseys, and start to have real conversations. I'm hoping that the unprecedented connectivity made possible by the internet is going to start to facilitate that. I think we're already seeing big signs of that starting to happen. The 2-party system is beyond antiquated as a system to serve the People.

The "two-party system" is our Constitution (doesn't call for it, but leads inevitably to it). A parliamentary system would produce more successful parties, but it would still be just formalized names for different parties of the two major coalitions.

And your team jersey is getting pretty tight, too.

 

[J. Bernie Cunningham]

I firmly believe the only thing that is going to unite the country is more honest communication. Both sides need to take off their team jerseys, and start to have real conversations. I'm hoping that the unprecedented connectivity made possible by the internet is going to start to facilitate that. I think we're already seeing big signs of that starting to happen. The 2-party system is beyond antiquated as a system to serve the People.

The internet is sadly fueling it. This judgemental nature in people has exploded to the point where superficial supercedes importance.

Put two articles next to eachother, 1 titled "Oh my, what did Hilary say now...." and another titled "State Department investigation reveals bribery." and sadly, we both know which gets more clicks.

I also agree with taking off the team jerseys, but were at the point where one team is letting Donald Trump lead them rather than concede defeat. These jerseys are apparently tattooed on. All we can do is keep the future from falling into the same trap we did.

 

[MASShole]

The internet is sadly fueling it. This judgemental nature in people has exploded to the point where superficial supercedes importance.

Put two articles next to eachother, 1 titled "Oh my, what did Hilary say now...." and another titled "State Department investigation reveals bribery." and sadly, we both know which gets more clicks.

I also agree with taking off the team jerseys, but were at the point where one team is letting Donald Trump lead them rather than concede defeat. These jerseys are apparently tattooed on. All we can do is keep the future from falling into the same trap we did.

This along with all the readily available CT nonsense that "seems" true all over the internet aren't helping unite anyone.

When one major party makes it their #1 priority, in public, to never work with the president, that's not a good thing to see from our so-called leaders

 

[Fawlty]

I firmly believe the only thing that is going to unite the country is more honest communication. Both sides need to take off their team jerseys, and start to have real conversations. I'm hoping that the unprecedented connectivity made possible by the internet is going to start to facilitate that. I think we're already seeing big signs of that starting to happen. The 2-party system is beyond antiquated as a system to serve the People.

It's a fine time to raise objections about our system- and it would take the mother of all overhauls to change it (and even still, it might revert back to two parties). But this election is also a serious crisis. I noticed you're saying a lot that people just want Hillary in because of Trump, but that makes perfect sense. Our country hasn't faced a domestic threat like this in my lifetime.

 

[Peteyandjia]

This I agree with, though you can hardly say that your approach in this thread has been a good example of that.

I've been honest. Stop crying just because we don't agree on everything.

The "two-party system" is our Constitution (doesn't call for it, but leads inevitably to it). A parliamentary system would produce more successful parties, but it would still be just formalized names for different parties of the two major coalitions.

I think due to the internet, people's relationship with politics is going to be more and more about issues, and less and less about who is in what party. I have a pet theory that the rise of Bernie was an example of the internet severely impacting the big game. He was not who the corporations wanted, and yet he almost made it. A guy like him would have been completely marginalized 20 years ago. I think it's a sign that 'movements' are getting harder to suppress. The powers that be used to be fine just controlling the media, but now media is so widespread, and the means of creating it & sharing information is so readily available. That is a major, unprecedented change in human history. It's going to be an interesting next few decades.