Elections Clinton vs Trump Polls thread (Clinton's Bounce Larger than Trump's)

[TheComebackKid]

Wouldn't that mean that any outsider who run for office and win, thus becoming a politician and then raises to a point of prominence as a establishment politician then be corrupt as well?

Yes, it would.

Did you just ignore the part about tenure and association?

That is why calling for outsiders, or non-establishment politicians, or any other label you want to use are nothing more then simple thinking. The truth is anyone the gets into political office and want to get something done has to work with other politicians and the current system. That system can change, but that change come from the bottom, the vary place people don't pay attention to because those are local races and not the big national election.

The issue is not simply the American political system...its the global power structure. You're not going effect the global system through local elections.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Did you just ignore the part about tenure and association?

Did you just ignore his comment about rising to a point of prominence? That usually takes a few terms.

 

[Gunny]

And yet hard to refute.

Well TBH that's sort of true, in exactly the same way it's hard to refute my five year old daughter when she's on the floor kicking and screaming. Sometimes you just have to wait till the tantrum has passed before trying to make any kind of point.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Well TBH that's sort of true, in exactly the same way it's hard to refute my five year old daughter when she's on the floor kicking and screaming. Sometimes you just have to wait till the tantrum has passed before trying to make any kind of point.

Actually you can't refute his comments because he's correct.
When he said that Trump runs to lawyers when offended, he was correct. Do you dispute that? If so there are tons of examples of him suing about damn near everything.
When he said that Trump was "limp-wristed" (a phrase I don't care for) about Russia he was right, unless you somehow missed Trump's comments about NATO and the Ukraine recently.

 

[m52nickerson]

Did you just ignore the part about tenure and association?

No, what do you think "raises to a point of prominence means?

The issue is not simply the American political system...its the global power structure. You're not going effect the global system through local elections.

In the US system that is the only way you are going to change the system. In other democratic system new parties come to into existence and can compete because people vote for parties and not individuals. Those votes also determine how much of the government those parties get to make up.

In the US the parties hardly resemble political parties in other countries. US political parties are very loosely organized. That is why an independent can become a Democratic primary candidate for president and a former Democrat can be the GOP candidate. Party member don't have to tow the party line. So for smart individuals it makes more sense to run become members of one of these parties, hopefully closest to their beliefs, then to run separately. It is also easier for a third party, or member of the main parties that are further from the base of the party, to win local elections.

We have one national elected position in the US, the Presidency. Well....technically 2 with the vice President. Everything else is state level at the highest and far far more are more local then that. So you want to change things, you have to win the local races before you have a chance at state or federal elections.

 

[Gunny]

Actually you can't refute his comments because he's correct.
When he said that Trump runs to lawyers when offended, he was correct. Do you dispute that? If so there are tons of examples of him suing about damn near everything.
When he said that Trump was "limp-wristed" (a phrase I don't care for) about Russia he was right, unless you somehow missed Trump's comments about NATO and the Ukraine recently.

I'll just wait till you guys calm down and pick yourselves up off the floor

 

[UpaLoompa]

I'll just wait till you guys calm down and pick yourselves up off the floor

Okay? Why do you think pointing out the demonstrable fact that "Small Hands" Trump is thin-skinned and prone to pout-suing people is indicative of throwing a tantrum?

 

[Gunny]

Okay? Why do you think pointing out the demonstrable fact that "Small Hands" Trump is thin-skinned and prone to pout-suing people is indicative of throwing a tantrum?

It's couching the point in terms of "my candidate can beat up yours" that is tantrum like. That gets us through the first two sentences. I'm about to board a flight so I'll let you fill in the rest

 

[Metusalemi]

This notion that Trump is strong seems a little, hmm, optimistic. First of all, it's plain to see that if at any time in his life, if you clocked the dude, he would drop like a pumpkin and then run to daddy's lawyer. The guy is the prima pussy priss. Even Obama would scrap a little. Bush & Jr would probably whip your ass, Clinton would try to fight back- but bless his heart he knows he isn't tough. Trump? Fetal position instantly. He's the bully who can't take it, probably shit his pants.

Second, since when is Asperger's levels of belligerence strength? He's an easily rustled baby. He's been in thousands of lawsuits because he can't settle anything like a man. Oh, he picks on women- yeah, that's some strength right there.

Third, who the fuck is he "strong" against? His rhetoric against Mexico and China regarding trade is like saying "I'll punch you to Mars, just wait and see." Unrealistic braggadouchio, and he can't follow through on it because his own party is going to tell him, "LOL no." He sure as shit is a limp wrist on Russia. Oh, he says he would bomb Raqqa- yeah, real brave stance there, the courage my god the courage to go out on that limb. So tough, tremendous, the toughest.

I know this is a tongue in cheek post, but did you really need to include the physical aspect to it? I mean, who honestly believes a 70 year old upper class dude with his hair piece is any physical threat to anyone. You even included other presidents physical capabilities to it. Don't tell me the macho Putin PR made you do it.

 

[UpaLoompa]

It's couching the point in terms of "my candidate can beat up yours" that is tantrum like. That gets us through the first two sentences. I'm about to board a flight so I'll let you fill in the rest

Uhm, you realize it was Trump that was talking about how he was going to beat people up, right?
Fawlty was just laughing about that and the absurd contention many on the right have that Trump is strong when he's really just a petulant baby.

Your commentary applies to Trump better than anyone posting here.


Have a good flight.

 

[Fawlty]

It's couching the point in terms of "my candidate can beat up yours" that is tantrum like. That gets us through the first two sentences. I'm about to board a flight so I'll let you fill in the rest

Oh man you missed the point here. I'm describing (like an asshole, I admit) how on multiple levels Trump is not the candidate-who-beats-up-yours that his supporters and Trump himself are making him out to be. It's not just that I think "my candidate can beat up yours" is a stupid mentality- it's especially stupid in the case of Trump, whether we're talking about his personal toughness (none) or his policy toughness (absurd bluster).

 

[My Spot]

Uhm, you realize it was Trump that was talking about how he was going to beat people up, right?
Fawlty was just laughing about that and the absurd contention many on the right have that Trump is strong when he's really just a petulant baby.

Your commentary applies to Trump better than anyone posting here.


Have a good flight.

Trump once beat up Vince McMahon and shaved his head in front of 80k people and over a million people watching live on PPV so he can kinda talk the talk.

 

[Fawlty]

I know this is a tongue in cheek post, but did you really need to include the physical aspect to it? I mean, who honestly believes a 70 year old upper class dude with his hair piece is any physical threat to anyone. You even included other presidents physical capabilities to it. Don't tell me the macho Putin PR made you do it.

I agree, he has no business acting tough. Not only is he (and always has been) a physical weakling who likes to call for others to do his violence for him, he also betrays a similar all-talk weakness in policy.

 

[Fawlty]

Trump once beat up Vince McMahon and shaved his head in front of 80k people and over a million people watching live on PPV so he can kinda talk the talk.

This is a good point.

 

[VivaRevolution]

That's the definition of being for sale: quid quo pro. "Not being for sale" would mean not endorsing her under any circumstances ie sticking to your convictions unconditionally.

No the definition of being for sale is taking money in exchange for influence.

You are being absurd.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

If Assange destroys Clinton, it could be a Trump-Sanders election.

 

[Prime Ang]

After the DNC I've moved from #neverHillary, to undecided. Literally any Democrat other than Bern/Warren/Clinton and I'd vote for a Democrat against Trump. I have a feeling Trump wins in landslide, but I'm starting to lean from voting Trump or Johnson, to voting Hillary.

 

[K1levelgrappler]

After the DNC I've moved from #neverHillary, to undecided. Literally any Democrat other than Bern/Warren/Clinton and I'd vote for a Democrat against Trump. I have a feeling Trump wins in landslide, but I'm starting to lean from voting Trump or Johnson, to voting Hillary.

I would suggest that you try to avoid fixating on personalities and vote based on policy. If nothing else, vote Hillary cuz we need somebody to veto all the garbage legislation Republicans put through congress on a regular basis.

 

[Jin Akutsu]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...lection_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson-5949.html

 

[Fawlty]

Three-way polls aren't going to be a factor this time. RCP has them in a dead heat, now Clinton will get her convention bump. Barring any craziness in the next few days I expect to see her +2 by next Saturday.