Cleaning up the Impeachment Narrative (UPDATED)

[waiguoren]

It was an issue because if the aid package - a pre-existing and bi-partisan piece of foreign policy, was held up as part of a QPQ, it would be a clear abuse of power.

But that's exactly what Biden says he did, on tape. He says he held up a $1 billion aid package to Ukraine in exchange for the firing of Shokin. Here's the footage (timestamped):




Maybe you think Biden is lying or exaggerating. Well, here is a Reuters article from 2015 which explains that a $2 billion package of loan guarantees from the US to Ukraine was "contingent on the former Soviet republic remaining on track to meet the conditions of its loan program from the International Monetary Fund". That is, QPQ.

The latter part of the statement was why Trump and his allies initially made such a big deal about there not being a QPQ. Somewhere down the line, they forgot what the fuck they were made about, though.

No, the QPQ which Trump has argued never existed was of the form "US aid <-> an investigation of the Bidens/Burisma."

From the time of the release of the whistleblower's report to the congressional intelligence committees (September 25), Trump has given two reasons for holding up the aid disbursement: (1) he wanted to secure a commitment from Ukraine to clean up corruption (QPQ) (2) he wanted a greater financial commitment from European allies toward Ukraine aid.

So when Trump said "no quid pro quo" in a press conference on October 16---21 days later---he's obviously not talking about (1). He's talking about aid for investigating Burisma.

Maybe? But this is null and void. Trump's own appointees assessed the contents of the complaint and determined that despite having reason to believe the whistleblower was biased against Trump, the contents of the complaint was of credible and urgent concern.

THE COMPLAINT WAS VETTED AND APPROVED BY TRUMP'S OWN PEOPLE.

Secondly, the contents of that complaint have now been largely verified by multiple witnesses.

The whistleblower's complaint describes what one man heard about the contents of a the call. It doesn't seem very important given that we have a copy of the call transcript.

Sondland has now stated that he informed his Ukranian counterpart that the aid was in fact tied to the investigations.

Sondland's testimony addendum is here. Sondland says he told Yermak (Zelensky's negotiator) on September 1 that "resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks." So that's consistent with (1) above and is exactly the sort of condition that often comes attached to US aid.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

If the president does it, that means it's not illegal.

 

[Overtures]

But that's exactly what Biden says he did..

No, it's not exactly what Biden did. The two events aren't even in the same solar system.

Biden said what he did out in the open because what he did was done out in the open; It was a general push to reform Ukraine and was backed by other Western European countries. One of the end goals was to remove Shokin, whose investigation into Burisma had fallen dormant at that time.

Still, it seems an awfully lot like Biden got lucky and killed two birds with one stone. Roundly agreed-upon anti-corruption policies aligned with what benefited his family -- evidently.

What Trump did, on the other hand, was usurp existing foreign policy through hidden channels with the end goal of a public announcement of investigations. He attempted to use the office of the presidency to manufacture a public spectacle with the express purpose of political weaponization. The announcement of the investigations (prior to any evidential findings) on television* serves no purpose but to damage Biden and the Democratic party.

 

[ocfightfan]

How does one clean up flaming garbage? The cleanest possible narrative is that the left and their deep state republican cuck allies manufactured a bullshit pretext for overturning an election result that they don't like and cover up their own corruption and abuses of power.

 

[Overtures]

How does one clean up flaming garbage? The cleanest possible narrative is that the left and their deep state republican cuck allies manufactured a bullshit pretext for overturning an election result that they don't like and cover up their own corruption and abuses of power.

seems legit

 

[Sketch]

When all of this becomes a nothing burger (Which it already is) And Trump wins 2020, and his kids go on to win 2024, I have no idea what the left will be whinging about then.

This Russian gate stuff, which was a hoax and now this Ukraine stuff is just surreal.

 

[Overtures]

When all of this becomes a nothing burger (Which it already is) And Trump wins 2020, and his kids go on to win 2024, I have no idea what the left will be whinging about then.

This Russian gate stuff, which was a hoax and now this Ukraine stuff is just surreal.

Go bake some banana bread or something.

 

[Sketch]

Go bake some banana bread or something.

That sounds delicious. Let me ask you this.

Banana bread, or chocolate chip Banana bread?

 

[Overtures]

That sounds delicious. Let me ask you this.

Banana bread, or chocolate chip Banana bread?

Tough question. Both are strong candidates.

 

[OhBam]

Tough question. Both are strong candidates.

Stronger than 2024's.

Hi-YO!

 

[Confucamus]

^^^ it has now become impossible to discern a right wing shitpost, from a legitimate left leaning post.

Spot. On.

That's called Top Tiered Shitposting. When your shitpost transcends regular shitposts and is so scary accurate that it actually fits in snugly next to real life alt-Left rhetoric, you are truly a master.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Trump and his allies have turned the impeachment narrative into confused gobbledygook with contradicting knee-jerk arguments meant to exonerate Trump's actions. Even though their claims are riddled with logical inconsistencies, they have incidentally controlled the narrative.

Let's refocus this cluster fuck by looking at oft repeated arguments against the inquiry.

1. QPQ are part of normal diplomacy.

• Yes, that's absolutely right, but the existence of a QPQ wasn't an issue because QPQs are themselves somehow bad (inherently); It was an issue because if the aid package - a pre-existing and bi-partisan piece of foreign policy, was held up as part of a QPQ, it would be a clear abuse of power.
  
  The latter part of the statement was why Trump and his allies initially made such a big deal about there not being a QPQ. Somewhere down the line, they forgot what the fuck they were made about, though.

2. The Whistleblower is a Democratic Soy Boy.

• Maybe? But this is null and void. Trump's own appointees assessed the contents of the complaint and determined that despite having reason to believe the whistleblower was biased against Trump, the contents of the complaint was of credible and urgent concern.
  
  THE COMPLAINT WAS VETTED AND APPROVED BY TRUMP'S OWN PEOPLE.
  
  Secondly, the contents of that complaint have now been largely verified by multiple witnesses.

3. A QPQ couldn't exist because Ukraine didn't know the aid was held up.

• Sondland has now stated that he informed his Ukranian counterpart that the aid was in fact tied to the investigations. Moreover, Ukraine new the aid was being held up through multiple channels prior to that communication.

4. A QPQ couldn't exist because the aid was eventually released.

• They aid was not released until there was a bi-partisan push to find out why it was being held up and an attempt to release it before it expired. It is within reason if not highly likely that rather than draw attention to their abuse of power, the White House decided to cut their loses and release the aid once it was being investigated.

5. Investigations into the 2016 election and Hunter Biden are part of normal National Interests.

• This is a gross representation of what happened. The back channel government and Trump's wishes to publicize these two very specific investigations that would benefit him both politically by fitting into his narratives show that Trump usurped existing Foreign Policy for his own personal gain.

Elect a clown as president, and the White House becomes a circus.

Weird random shot at Obama at the end there.

 

[Overtures]

Weird random shot at Obama at the end there.

Obama never got himself impeached. Never got sued a thousand times. And never got a book written about how his presidency was hot garbage by an anonymous white house official.

Move along.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Remember Benghazi?

This is what happens when you ignore things like Benghazi.

You set a precedent.

Either it's all OK, or none of it's OK.

 

[skysolo]

I just don't see how this is a good idea.

To do Trump, the Democrats will have to do Biden and essentially themselves.

Then we would have think that the Senate will remove their incumbent president and de-facto nominee from office and the ballot 1 or 2 months from the convention and a few months from the election.

 

[*Z*]

How about explaining why you think that call was about Biden, and not the DNC server?

Both things were mentioned were they not?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Both things were mentioned were they not?

Yes, and one was mentioned first, and in far more depth.

 

[*Z*]

Remember Benghazi?

This is what happens when you ignore things like Benghazi.

You set a precedent.

Either it's all OK, or none of it's OK.

Ignore Benghazi? There were 10 investigations into it.

 

[*Z*]

Yes, and one was mentioned first, and in far more depth.

What does the order matter? He asked that both be looked into and to talk to Barr and Rudy. What was Rudy up to?

 

[VivaRevolution]

What does the order matter? He asked that both be looked into and to talk to Barr and Rudy. What was Rudy up to?

Well the order and depth of discussion usually indicate what the priority is.