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Cleaning up the Impeachment Narrative (UPDATED)

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Overtures, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Overtures

    Overtures Jobless

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    ORIGINAL POST
    Trump and his allies have turned the impeachment narrative into confused gobbledygook with contradicting knee-jerk arguments meant to exonerate Trump's actions. Even though their claims are riddled with logical inconsistencies, they have incidentally controlled the narrative.

    Let's refocus this cluster fuck by looking at oft repeated arguments against the inquiry.

    1. QPQ are part of normal diplomacy.

    • Yes, that's absolutely right, but the existence of a QPQ wasn't an issue because QPQs are themselves somehow bad (inherently); It was an issue because if the aid package - a pre-existing and bi-partisan piece of foreign policy, was held up as part of a QPQ, it would be a clear abuse of power.

      The latter part of the statement was why Trump and his allies initially made such a big deal about there not being a QPQ. Somewhere down the line, they forgot what the fuck they were made about, though.

    2. The Whistleblower is a Democratic Soy Boy.

    • Maybe? But this is null and void. Trump's own appointees assessed the contents of the complaint and determined that despite having reason to believe the whistleblower was biased against Trump, the contents of the complaint was of credible and urgent concern.

      THE COMPLAINT WAS VETTED AND APPROVED BY TRUMP'S OWN PEOPLE.

      Secondly, the contents of that complaint have now been largely verified by multiple witnesses.

    3. A QPQ couldn't exist because Ukraine didn't know the aid was held up.

    • Sondland has now stated that he informed his Ukranian counterpart that the aid was in fact tied to the investigations. Moreover, Ukraine new the aid was being held up through multiple channels prior to that communication.

    4. A QPQ couldn't exist because the aid was eventually released.

    • They aid was not released until there was a bi-partisan push to find out why it was being held up and an attempt to release it before it expired. It is within reason if not highly likely that rather than draw attention to their abuse of power, the White House decided to cut their loses and release the aid once it was being investigated.

    5. Investigations into the 2016 election and Hunter Biden are part of normal National Interests.

    • This is a gross representation of what happened. The back channel government and Trump's wishes to publicize these two very specific investigations that would benefit him both politically by fitting into his narratives show that Trump usurped existing Foreign Policy for his own personal gain.
    Elect a clown as president, and the White House becomes a circus.


    CONCLUSION AS OF NOVEMBER 11TH

    I now believe that there is enough evidence to prove Trump used the authority of his presidency for personal gain in a manner consistent with high crimes and misdemeanors. The overall color of the pressure campaign shows ill intent. A few broad points that suggest this are:

    1. It is unusual to ask a foreign country to carry out an investigation into American citizens. It is especially unusual to ask a vulnerable and historically corrupt country to carry out investigations pertaining to political rivals and rival political parties.

    This is tell one. Trump saw an opportunity to take advantage of a weak country, one that was already susceptible to corruption and deal-making.

    2. The pressure campaign was carried out through back channels and against the advice of both diplomats and White house officials.

    This is tell two. The effort would be rebuffed if done through normal channels. Thus Trump and Giuliani deployed a rogue campaign that included Parnas and Fruman as insiders.

    2. There was an urgency in the campaign that implies political ends, to strike while the iron is hot.

    This is tell three. Abruptly holding up the aid without explanation prior to the phone call was the pinnacle of this urgency. The White House knew what they were asking for needed to be incentivized - no country would want to appear to meddle in US elections openly.

    3. The repeated need for the investigations to be announced publicly and for the language of that announcements to be dictated by the White House.

    This is tell four. It is almost unbelievable that this actually happened. We have clear evidence in the form of text messages that the language was discussed. Furthermore, the need for a public spectacle has surfaced in multiple stages of the campaign.

    Overall, I feel this is on par with Nixon if not worse. In the end, it is a matter of public opinion. Unless the dots can be connected without distraction from Trump and the GOP, nothing will happen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019 at 2:02 PM
    jeffk, luckyshot, JDragon and 18 others like this.
  2. Richie Madano

    Richie Madano Blue Belt

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    5 years left. Pace yourself.
     
  3. Fawlty

    Fawlty Your parents are decent people

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    Good post, but remember that it's illegal with or without QPQ.
     
  4. sdpdude9

    sdpdude9 Brown Belt

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    You are correct, but they don’t care about the facts. It’s not about guilt or innocence to them. It’s about “winning” and if he gets away with it, they win in their eyes. You will see more and more comments like the one above me, where they can’t argue the content so they try to taunt and derail the conversation. These people are too far gone, they don’t care about the evidence and nothing will change their mind.
     
  5. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Silver Belt

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    If only there was a thread on this somewhere
     
  6. PolishHeadlock2

    PolishHeadlock2 Absolutley Haram Platinum Member

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    It's pretty simple Trump used Congressionally approve funds to extort a vulnerable ally into manufacturing dirt on a political foe and undermine the 2020 election.
     
  7. Fawlty

    Fawlty Your parents are decent people

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    Back in 2016 I was worried that Trump's rhetoric on NATO sounded a LOT like he was trying to run a protection racket. And Ukraine being essentially in a state of war with Russia right now, this is exactly a protection racket, imo.
     
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  8. bobgeese

    bobgeese Gold Belt

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    ITT true believers.


    You may recognize them from embarrassing themselves throughout the Russia megathreads.
     
  9. lilelvis

    lilelvis Black Belt Platinum Member

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    That sounds like a conspiracy theory. Right?
     
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  10. SmilinDesperado

    SmilinDesperado Silver Belt

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    Good, simplified breakdown, but unfortunately these turd's feelings care about the facts.
    The problem with conservatives with constantly seeing everything in black and white. They hear Biden and Ukraine in the same sentence, and then Trump and Ukraine in another sentence and come to the conclusion that the exact same thing happened in both cases.
     
  11. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Platinum Member

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    How about explaining why you think that call was about Biden, and not the DNC server?
     
  12. jk7707

    jk7707 Red Belt

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    The first few replies from the usual cultists serve as a great example.
     
  13. Ornife

    Ornife Brown Belt

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    Trump BTFO again. Impeachment incoming any second, MAGA boys!
     
  14. bobgeese

    bobgeese Gold Belt

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    ^^^ it has now become impossible to discern a right wing shitpost, from a legitimate left leaning post.
     
  15. SBJJ

    SBJJ Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    Lol. I was thinking the exact same thing
     
  16. Ophydian

    Ophydian Brown Belt

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    It is quite a coincidence these two follow each other around.
     
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  17. JamesRussler

    JamesRussler You can call me Jimmy

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    Here we go, baby. My pants are off.
     
  18. superpunch

    superpunch Silver Belt

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    I care deeply about corruption in government. If Obama (your side) can do things like ratifying peace treaties via executive order the why can't Trump (other side) do things like quid pro quo?

    Quid pro quo to investigate corruption doesn't seem any worse than that to me.

    Also, liberal courts have recognized the Constitution as a living, breathing document for a long time. Why can't conservative courts also recognize the Constitution as a living, breathing document in this case and find that quid pro quo doesn't mean what it used to mean?
     
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  19. superpunch

    superpunch Silver Belt

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    The idea of a living, breathing Constitution and living, breathing laws always seemed derp to me. The Constitution says what it says. The law says what it says. They don't breathe new meanings without being rewritten.

    But liberal courts have found that they are living, breathing things for a long time. Why can't conservative courts also use the living, breathing concept now? Why can only liberals do that?

    The Constitution says that the Congress has to ratify treaties. Obama ratified treaties via executive order. Why do liberal presidents get to ignore the Constitution? Why can't conservative presidents do it too?

    What you're seeing on the conservative side right now is a direct reflection of what liberals have been doing for a long time.

    Most people want a system where no one gets to ignore the Constitution and the letter of the law is read as the letter of the law. But they're not going to like a system where only their team has to respect the Constitution and only the other team gets living, breathing laws. That would make them idiots. And I think that's what you're seeing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  20. west42

    west42 Brown Belt

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    Cause orange man bad.
     

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