Cleaned out division and retired on top as Champ = GSP = GOAT

[My Spot]

Except he didn't lose to Hendricks.

 

[bartleby929]

sure he got the W on his record. hard to see how he won that fight.

 

[My Spot]

I can understand if someone doesn't think GSP is the goat because it's completely subjective but saying that he "lost" to Hendricks like it's a fact just makes you seem like a hater.

 

[bartleby929]

I can understand if someone doesn't think GSP is the goat because it's completely subjective but saying that he "lost" to Hendricks like it's a fact just makes you seem like a hater.

GSP is one of my favorite fighters of all time. But he lost 3 rounds to Hendricks in his last fight. And if you disagree and think the judges were right, that's good for you. It's hard to see that as a big W for GSP.

 

[My Spot]

But the bottom line is that GSP won. That's a fact that can't be argued. It reminds me of when I first joined Sherdog back in 09 and all the Shogun fans who said he "beat" Machida.

 

[bartleby929]

But the bottom line is that GSP won. That's a fact that can't be argued. It reminds me of when I first joined Sherdog back in 09 and all the Shogun fans who said he "beat" Machida.

I thought Shogun beat Machida in that first fight too. But I think Hendricks was winning by a wider margin than even Shogun/Machida I. And what if Machida retired right after that fight? I mean, you can even see it in their faces when they're waiting for the results..

 

[My Spot]

And what about Hendricks' split decisions over Mike Pierce and Koscheck?

 

[bartleby929]

What does that have to do with the GSP/Hendricks fight? Bad decisions don't cancel out other bad decisions...

 

[Rum]

I dunno man. To say "he doesn't even have 10 title defenses" is a bit dismissive considering only one person in the history of the sport has 10 title defenses. Plus Fedor only has 3 :redface:.

Jones record is a little light as far as quantity but his quality is arguably the best. Even his two "joke contenders" were top 10 caliber LHWs even tho they came up from MW. Plus he's done it on the biggest stage...consistently.

Ha! Yeah, that title defenses stat for Fedor is always odd to think about. :icon_chee

As for Chael and Vitor though? You simply don't fight 0 LHW opponents for half a decade and then step in against the champion of the division as anything even close to a legitimate contender. And that's just Vitor. Chael had fought just 1 LHW opponent in the preceding 10 years when he attempted to compete with Bones, and even that was fully 7 years prior and he was finished in the 2nd. Vitor and Chael were 4-5 and 3-5 at 205 when they fought Jones. If those guys were considered Top 10 caliber at LHW then that speaks much more to the abysmal weakness of the division our boy was ruling in 2013 than to their own quality/legitimacy as LHW contenders.

Even giving Lyoto the shot was half a joke, him being 1-2 when he challenged Jones, and even that win was over a 48yo mostly-retired Randy who had been miles away from the top level for at least 4 years. Rampage, his lack of wrestling defense well-exposed by then, getting the shot off a mere 2-fight win streak was far short of impressive. Hell, even the champion Jones beat was a shaky 3-2 in his last 5 and off yet another long surgery lay-off.

Thing about Jones's run is that the names are 'great', but most of the fighters attached to them were far short of fitting that description when he fought them. Meanwhile the likes of Aldo and GSP very rarely fought anyone on less than a 3-fight win-streak.

Aldo's resume is impeccable but it's really tough to gauge his competition level as the division is quite young. Also Aldo is lacking in GOAT intangibles. He doesn't bring the entire sport to attention when he fights ala GSP, Anderson, Fedor, and Jones. Beyond the first Mendes fight(which was epic) he doesn't have many classic or legendary moments. I suppose I'm nitpicking. I just think if Aldo lost the next 5 fights he wouldn't be mentioned any longer. GSP, Fedor, and Anderson could lose 20 fights in a row and still be at the table because they are solidified. They could even pop for roids and take viagra and still be there lol.

I think Jones is solidified too. Say he came back and just started losing to everyone. People would still hold "pre-car crash Jones" up as a mythical unbeatable champion.

Aldo really needs to deliver against McGregor.

The relative number of "intangibles" and "classic moments" could be blamed on the relative sexiness of Aldo's division to the others as much as anything actually meaningful. It's just the nature of combat sports that the bigger the dudes whaling on each other the more love they get (unless they have a big gob on them of course). I find it hard to blame the fighters for that inherent "prejudice".

Even so, of the five GOATs only Anderson has a title fight finish (Vitor) more worthy of legend than Aldo's spinning knee KO of Mendes, a finish followed by the most iconic victory celebration in UFC history when he flew out of the cage and into, then onto, the insanely adoring crowd. The classic flying knee KO of Swanson in the title fight eliminator was also more spectacular and dynamic than anything Jones, GSP or Fedor ever pulled off. Aldo's second fight with Mendes was rightfully officially voted Fight of the Year for 2014. To this day his destruction of the legs of (former 5-defense champion) Faber is so legendary it's still the fight people talk about when they talk leg kicks. None of the other Top 5 GOATs has such an indelible association with a technique (except maybe Bones with eyepokes, lol).

Of course you're right about Aldo's status, but that's really just because many casuals don't give a shit about 145lb guys hitting each other while they find MWs or LHWs or HWs smashing each other far more sexy. That's just the nature of combat sports. But us hardcores have always known the talent at 145 was as good and often better P4P than those marquee divisions, not just because far fewer of the best athletes from FW were poached off the top by big money sports than they were from MW, LHW and HW, but because, demographically speaking, since the average man is around 5'9.5" the talent pool of 5'6"-5'8" men is much bigger than the talent pool of, say, 6'1"-6'3" men.

I say this as a 6'1.5", 210lb man by the way. I have no illusions about how "my" guys stack up in MMA vs Aldo-sized guys P4P. :icon_chee


p.s. Sorry for the novel.

TL;DR Aldo is underrated and Jones somewhat overrated by casual fans.

 

[TreeOfWoe]

He didn't clean out WW. Current Robbie Lawler would arguably completely destroy the GSP we saw in his last few fights. GSP would not be able to get the takedown, and needless to say in the stand up Lawler would put a vicious beating on him and mutilate GSP's face.

 

[bartleby929]

GSP v. Hughes 2 was the reason why I started watching MMA. I went to the fight where he got kncoked out by Serra. He's one of my fave fighters. But I don't think he beat Hendricks and the only reason it (should have been) 48-47 Hendricks was because Hendricks coasted in the last round because he was already counting his chickens. IMO Hendricks was a horrible match up for GSP and beat him up pretty bad.

but back to the topic, GOAT is JJ imo until he loses. The closest he's come (unless you want to also count Hamil's W too) was Chael and Vitor.

He beat up guys who were at the top of their game (Shogun, Machida, Evans) in dominating fashion.

 

[My Spot]

What does that have to do with the GSP/Hendricks fight? Bad decisions don't cancel out other bad decisions...

Because people constantly talk about Hendricks getting "screwed' against GSP and Lawler yet (conveniently) forget his split decisions over Pierce and Kos.

 

[My Spot]

GSP v. Hughes 2 was the reason why I started watching MMA. I went to the fight where he got kncoked out by Serra. He's one of my fave fighters. But I don't think he beat Hendricks and the only reason it (should have been) 48-47 Hendricks was because Hendricks coasted in the last round because he was already counting his chickens. IMO Hendricks was a horrible match up for GSP and beat him up pretty bad.

but back to the topic, GOAT is JJ imo until he loses. The closest he's come (unless you want to also count Hamil's W too) was Chael and Vitor.

He beat up guys who were at the top of their game (Shogun, Machida, Evans) in dominating fashion.

GSP/Hendricks was a close fight either way because of round 1. It's all moot though because regardless of what we think, GSP won.

 

[bartleby929]

alright, and regardless of what we think hamill won too.

the first round wasn't that close either. i thought it wasn't a great way to go out. if gsp retired after diaz or condit, fine. but he was in a fight with a guy who (in many people's mind but not the judges or The Higher Power's) was beating GSP so convincingly that he took it easy in rounds three and five...

 

[cwatz]

Finishing is more dominant. One or two finishes can be brushed off as lucky or favorable moments. But when were talking about guys like Fedor and Anderson who finish every single time out then at some point you have to say they are more dominant. GSPs opponents can fight for a full 5 rounds with him and be ready for a
6th. Most of Fedor and Anderson opponents literally cannot survive that long. Hell they can't make it past 10 minutes with those guys.

I think you missed what I was saying. Finishes are definitive and dominating, no question. You can't argue against them.

What I was saying in regards to GSP is the lack of explosive punching power, and mostly WW GnP simply doesn't finish people out of the blue. It doesn't mean its significantly less dominating though. You just have to look at it with logical eyes. Its not apples to apples.

I won't say he was easily more dominant than those guys, but Im also not going to dock him a huge amount of points, especially considering how one sided most of his fights were.

 

[bartleby929]

lol now I have to flip around and defend GSP. GSP has explosive striking, he just chose to use explosive wrestling after the Serra fight. I don't know why he was so particular to using the GNP but it doesn't mean he lacked explosive striking.

Was he Anderson Silva in terms of striking? No, but no one is. But he definitely had power.

 

[Rum]

GOAT is JJ imo until he loses.

He beat up guys who were at the top of their game (Shogun, Machida, Evans) in dominating fashion.

Shogun was 3-2 and off his third knee surgery lay-off. Far from the top of his game.

Machida was 1-2, that win being over 48yo mostly retired Randy. Far from the top of his game.

Rashad ... ok, yeah, I'll give you Rashad.

 

[rooksta]

5 of the last 7 fights for aldo he won by decision

but he is a killer right?

GSP is boring!

Gsp and bones for goat.

 

[bartleby929]

Shogun was the champ... Machida crane kicked Couture and lost a bad decision against Rampage. Before that he was the champ...

So you'll give me Rashad but not the LHW belt holders? This is going to be like when people belittled Fedor's Sylvia and Arlovski wins because they started going downhill after that

 

[thx113x]

You can make a claim for him being the goat. GSP throughout his entire career never faced any cans or guys with losing records. The competition level he faced from his 1st fight to his last was very impressive. It's certainly the best out of all the GOAT candidates IMO.