International Chinese admiral threatens to sink 2 US carriers over South China Sea claims

[Kframe]

I'm pretty sure Russia has a lot of nukes and wouldn't take too kindly to you nuking their neighbor.

Russia has never been good friends with China. There is a reason their shared border is one of the most militarized in the world behind the Nk/Sk border.

 

[Kframe]

The thing is, Taiwan kind of wants the US there. It also has tech assets which are integrated into America's industrial defense network and supply chain. One wild guess as to what kind of 'assets' those are in particular. TSMC is only the largest pure play foundry in the world.

It's grown so big and successful that only Intel exceeds it in annual revenue. You could include Samsung in there as well for their participation in the DRAM market, but most people rightly think of it as a tech hardware and equipment firm rather than semiconductor firm.

So sad to not see AMD on that list. Poor bastards trying so hard and still can't do it right.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

Russia has never been good friends with China. There is a reason their shared border is one of the most militarized in the world behind the Nk/Sk border.

They're being forced closer right now by the U.S. constantly attacking both of them economically.

It's also possible that if the U.S. used nukes on China that Russia might be going "Oh shit, maybe we're next."

 

[ShinkanPo]

Constantly reading all of the spiteful shit out of them grinds my gears, dude. It's an inconsequential dilemma of sorts because the entirety of me is European on a molecular level with tons of insight into my family origins (partially because the Murican is so relatively recent) and I have deep affinity for several of the component subcultures.

The United States isn't an empire and never was. Once matured, it ironically did away with all of the world's legit colonial powers and Europe actually had the idea they'd be able to retain control over their territories. Instead, they were made to establish economic interdependence to make their perpetual wars - that over half a million Americans died fighting in - impossible, be put under the US collective security blanket and enjoy unilateral access to its markets (not to mention the grant and aid programs) with this new thing called international free trade to replace an actual imperial system, underwritten by the US Navy on America's dime.

Yet they stare down their noses and act like they got some kind of raw deal out of that, it's pretty fucking incredulous.

The US not an imperialist? Hmnn I dont know about that I do have an opinion that the US is an imperialist in the modern sense but I am a pro imperial fellow in the sense that I will allow to be "subjugated" in a reasonable sense and offcourse in a more humanitarian oriented imperialism.

Empires gets demonized as oppresors in the modern age but lets take a step back much of the advancement in humanities were forged and sustained by empires. Hell who does not want to be part of the Roman Empire?

Imho empires are inevitable for better or worst. Heck if the Romans did it during the time of Jesus fucking Christ where long distance communication is done by yelling accross the pond what more today when techno advancements makes it much easier to administer those "Roman Provinces"

The far left in my country still woud cry "US imperialist" Empires bad!

Oh well maybe this Admiral Tso guy who wants to Sink US CVNs just watched to many Star Wars and equating the CVNs to death Star.

But they better beware the Empire will Strike Back!

And as for those radical leftists? I say this to them.

 

[Kframe]

They're being forced closer right now by the U.S. constantly attacking both of them economically.

It's also possible that if the U.S. used nukes on China that Russia might be going "Oh shit, maybe we're next."

You would need to provide citation to prove that Russia and China are closer now.

 

[thehighking]

He's not wrong though, USA has no right have warships over there. This constant warmongering and increasing tensions has got to stop. It's endangering the lives of Americans

 

[NoDak]

I love that Churchill quote. The whole passage is worth reading, right from when the butler comes in and tells Churchill and his American guest to turn on the radio -- where they hear news of Pearl Harbor -- right to the end, where Churchill says that he went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and the grateful.
Of course, America has changed a lot since then. Would we still fight it out "... to the last, desperate inch." ?

It's not the hardware, in the end, it's the people.

A very interesting thread. I especially appreciated the posts with links to data. And other people read Foreign Affairs!! And quote Churchill!

The future is unpredictable. In some ways, the short-term future is even less predictable than the long-term.

What the Chinese will do tomorrow, or next year, or within the next five years -- what will happen to the world economy in those time spans -- or to America -- no one can say. Today is pretty much like yesterday, which was pretty much like the day before that ... so we are conditioned not to expect radical changes. But they happen. Thus the prudent man will have his canned food and AR15 in the basement, just in case.

You can't even expect rationality to rule: in his History of the Second World War, Churchill has a whole chapter on why no one expected the Japanese to voluntarily go to war with Britain and the US -- anyone who did the maths would see that it was a crazy idea. Well, their navy did the maths, but their army had had nothing but victories in China, and ignored the numbers -- and it was the army who called the shots. (Before the war, Admiral Yamamoto -- that's the name that they should give their next aircraft carrier! -- had to have a bodyguard to protect him from assassination by the army. But he was a good patriot and when called upon to work out a plan to hold off the Americans for a year, did his best, which was pretty good, but not good enough.) It was madness to go to war against the US and Britain -- especially since FDR had been goading the Japanese to do just that, so that the American people would be roused out of their isolationist torpor -- but, as Churchill concludes that chapter, madness has one advantage: surprise.

So although it's interesting to speculate about the outcome of a US/China engagement, I don't think we have any idea whether it's likely, or even what would happen. All the best plans evaporate on first contact with the enemy. All we can say is that it would be mad for China to do it -- right now.

But if we try to look ahead fifty years -- then we are on firmer ground. But only relatively speaking -- who, fifty years ago, in 1968, predicted the internet; the collapse of Communism (explicitly in Russia and her satellites, implicitly, in China and Vietnam); or the religious radicalization of a significant section of the Muslim world?

However, there are some trends which seem to me to be irreversible: the economic growth of China, and its subsequent reflection in military strength. I'm perfectly aware that their current economic model has some serious weaknesses, which are probably going to bite them in the next period: too much residual socialism, for one thing; probably too much debt; not enough people, especially of the female persuasion; and of course corruption.

Even some of their apparent strengths may be exaggerated, the way Hitler exaggerated the strengh of the Wehrmacht before WWII.

But we've got to take the Warren Buffet approach, and look at fundamentals, and project forward fifty years.

They're as smart as we are, perhaps even smarter. [Uh -oh ... has it become illegal, a hate crime, to talk about the biologically-based intelligence of ethnic groups yet? Even if I'm implying whites are dumber than others? I will confess to everything and immediately enroll in a diversity-awareness course, officer!]

Their government is not sentimental. There is no word for 'political correctness' in Mandarin. (Wait -- a Chinese friend has just told me that there is such a phrase, whose literal translation is 'Roundeye-Suicide-Wish'. Ha ... how does that mean 'political correctness'?? Maybe they're not so smart after all, or this was translated by the guy who does all those incomprehensible 'translations' on the leaflets that come with the stuff I buy from China.) Anyway, when they've got a problem, they solve it, or try to, without worrying about hurting someone's feelings: China has several ethnic minorities, small in comparison to the Han population, but large enough to take into account. One of these minorities is Muslim, and among them, radical Islamists duly appeared. (For those interested, details here.) Finally, the government had enough: evidently they've put about 10% of the Muslim population (the Oighurs) into 're-education camps'.

Their young intelligentsia don't hate their own country. From reports I've had from people who teach some of them, a lot of them would like to have a more liberal -- in the 'classic' sense -- China, which bodes well for the future. But ... what do you think would happen to a group of young Chinese who publically burned their country's flag? They're actually proud of China. Imagine that! Americans underestimate the strength of other peoples' national pride -- those Vietnamese kids who carried satchel charges past Claymore mines weren't fighting for the world proletarian revolution -- they were fighting for a united Vietnam. When Mao made his initial speech to the first gathering of the supporters of the Chinese revolution in 1949, he didn't say, "Another step on the path to world communism." He said, "The Chinese people have stood up!" That's why his picture can still be found everywhere in China, despite the madness of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.

Their projected demographics are bad. America has a similar problem, and is solving it by via its Hispanic population. Whites in America will be a minority in fifty years. When the Democrats retake the Presidency, which of course they will at some point, the Open Borders which will follow will push the bottom of that population pyramid out even further. China won't do that. But want to bet that they'll find other ways, which preserve their tribal composition, to do the same thing? Remember, they'll be getting richer and richer.

The possible coming economic crisis will no doubt hurt them. But we're talking long term: America came out of the worst depression ever to emerge dominant in the capitalist world. Look at fundamentals. Look ahead a couple of generations.

As Heraclitus said, war is the father and king of all things. As they become wealthy, they'll buy a better and better military. If they're smart -- and they are -- they won't send it all over the world to bring Lesbian Outreach Centers to Kandahar. Let's hope they'll remain cool, and play the long game -- maybe the occasional threat to sink some carriers to assuage national pride, but that will be just for show ... hopefully.

And ... America is vanishing. Please note that I'm not happy about this -- just the opposite. But you can't fool life.

There will still be something called 'the United States' for a long time. It will still have a formidible arsenal. But the people manning it -- and, more importantly, those in command of it -- will have been transformed. It's a great tragedy, but it won't be the end of history.

But when the equivalent of the events that galvanized previous generations of Americans to destroy slavery, fight fascism, and contain communism occurs in the future ... the American ruling elite will have been trained to despise their own homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, imperialist country. They will be its apologists, not its defenders.

Aye!

You're a breath of fresh air and great addition to this forum, please hang around. If your user handle is any hint, I'm thinking you might be a cool 45 years older than me. I tend to see (informed) elders as an invaluable resource to glean knowledge and perspective from. There's tons to address in this post, which I'll try to get around to when I have a little more time. Homophobia is bad, man! Thanks for the heads up on this gent though, @The ScorpioN.

So sad to not see AMD on that list. Poor bastards trying so hard and still can't do it right.

They're about 14th in revenue (including the semiconductor materials and machinery firms).

I used to be really big fan of AMD until they went and concocted a very suspect joint venture with state-backed Chinese holding company THATIC in 2016 and it's definitely poised to make a dent on Intel's business in China's data center market. It could've been worse though considering AMD maintains a majority stake in CHMT. THATIC owns a majority stake in Hygon, which licenses AMD's IP from CHMT. Hygon designs the chips, and CHMT manufactures them before sending back to Hygon for packaging, marketing, and sales.

Why root for Intel? Well, the thing with AMD is that they're now a fabless firm (so is Qualcomm tbf), which means they don't possess their own advanced manufacturing capacity - majority is outsourced to Singapore - so what they can offer our country in terms of capital investment and job creation is limited.

On the contrary, Intel is the biggest dog in our most important industrial industry that keeps the vast majority of its fabrication manufacturing (75%+) stateside, either directly employing or supporting 475,000 jobs. It's America's largest high technology capital expenditure investor, the third largest investor in global R&D, a top five domestic exporter and has operational (or soon to be) stateside fabrication plants built in 1996, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2007, 2013, 2017 and 2021, three of them in my metro area alone.

An expanded picture on the SC R&D front. Where's China?

 

[NoDak]

Well not yet an annexation attempt but a direct call for help and support:

Yea, we kind of can't allow that to happen.

 

[xcvbn]

Yea, we kind of can't allow that to happen.

Moments like this are what helped propel America into the powerful empire that it is. Normally I'm against our foreign intervention, but if there's ever a time it's when a country is literally begging for help to prevent a hostile takeover by none other than our largest economic rival.

 

[Kframe]

They're about 14th in revenue (including the semiconductor materials and machinery firms).

I used to be really big fan of AMD until they went and concocted a very suspect joint venture with state-backed Chinese holding company THATIC in 2016 and it's definitely poised to make a dent on Intel's business in China's data center market. It could've been worse though considering AMD maintains a majority stake in CHMT. THATIC owns a majority stake in Hygon, which licenses AMD's IP from CHMT. Hygon designs the chips, and CHMT manufactures them before sending back to Hygon for packaging, marketing, and sales.

Why root for Intel? Well, the thing with AMD is that they're now a fabless firm (so is Qualcomm tbf), which means they don't possess their own advanced manufacturing capacity - majority is outsourced to Singapore - so what they can offer our country in terms of capital investment and job creation is limited.

On the contrary, Intel is the biggest dog in our most important industrial industry that keeps the vast majority of its fabrication manufacturing (75%+) stateside, either directly employing or supporting 475,000 jobs. It's America's largest high technology capital expenditure investor, the third largest investor in global R&D, a top five domestic exporter and has operational (or soon to be) stateside fabrication plants built in 1996, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2007, 2013, 2017 and 2021, three of them in my metro area alone.

An expanded picture on the SC R&D front. Where's China?

My issue is that Intel has no competition at all in the consumer pc chip market. At least with AMD there is an option, but as you say they don't produce any chips of their own. I just refuse to buy intel for there damn near monopoly. If AMD Can offer a 32 core chip for consumer prices there there is no reason why Intel can't.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

US war with china would be the end of the US. Even if you win the nation would shatter. Be like how the UK is a joke now and lost after ww2.

I suspect you're on some type of drug or medication...

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

You would need to provide citation to prove that Russia and China are closer now.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/12/chi...s-with-russia-amid-raising-protectionism.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...187f427e253_story.html?utm_term=.89eefeb3b6fc

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-20/russia-and-china-bolster-ties-to-thwart-us-dominance/10134426

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/arti...sia-and-china-are-strengthening-security-ties
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-deal-on-new-gas-route-to-china-idUSKCN1LS09K

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...-fear-coming-true-russia-china-alliance-25222

 

[NoDak]

Moments like this are what helped propel America into the powerful empire that it is. Normally I'm against our foreign intervention, but if there's ever a time it's when a country is literally begging for help to prevent a hostile takeover by none other than our largest economic rival.

Taiwan is more important than anything Russia is up to or planning in Eastern Europe.

My issue is that Intel has no competition at all in the consumer pc chip market. At least with AMD there is an option, but as you say they don't produce any chips of their own. I just refuse to buy intel for there damn near monopoly. If AMD Can offer a 32 core chip for consumer prices there there is no reason why Intel can't.

They have the data center processor market cornered too. The consumer and competition angles are why I support(ed) AMD but I ultimately care a lot more about geopolitical advantages, technology leadership, domestic capital investment, high wage job creation and industrial production - which Intel provides in spades.

It's been one of the single biggest factors in transforming my city into an advanced manufacturing hub. This place used to be a backwater call center shithole before they set up shop here, former employees have gone and spun off their own multi-billion firms (Microchip) HDQed here who one of my closest friends is employed by. It rates pretty high on JUST Capital's list of the best big companies as well.

 

[NoDak]

Eh, you won't see Bern flipping ala Walmart and Amazon.

 

[NoDak]

@Kframe This is admittedly pretty freakish.

A new era of supercomputing offers unprecedented opportunities for scientific and industrial breakthroughs. The global competition among high-performance computing (HPC) systems heats up at the International Supercomputing Conference (ISC 2018) in Frankfurt, Germany.

The next generation of supercomputers will provide scientists and researchers with powerful new tools to accelerate scientific discoveries and drive innovations. Intel is on the forefront of the convergence of artificial intelligence (AI), analytics, simulation and modeling and other HPC workloads that will drive the industry toward the next era in supercomputing.

ISC 2018 kicked off with the release of the Top 500 list, which shows today’s supercomputing platforms continue to rely on Intel Xeon processors as the preferred processor in the world’s leading Top 500 supercomputers. Intel processors power a record 95 percent of all systems in the Top 500 list, an increase of 2.4 percent since June 2017.

 

[HIMBOB]

Like how after 9/11 we were too scared to kick the shit out of folks on the other side of the world?

So if China does this America will attack North Korea

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

So if China does this America will attack North Korea

People keep making this crack, like there isn't a fatal flaw in it. 9/11 wasn't viewed by the public as state-sponsored. Other than to the extent Afghanistan allowed them to operate within their borders. If China sinks our battleship I expect China to take the heat.

 

[sverre054]

Is Japan even allowed to have a real full fledged military? I thought they were prohibited from it like Germany is?

They have a pacifist language in there constitution, and the Military is only a self defense or peace keeping force. Self defense is a broad term, but I think they will rewrite there laws soon to allow full militarization.

 

[ShinkanPo]

People keep making this crack, like there isn't a fatal flaw in it. 9/11 wasn't viewed by the public as state-sponsored. Other than to the extent Afghanistan allowed them to operate within their borders. If China sinks our battleship I expect China to take the heat.

They are going to take heat a million degrees

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

They are going to take heat a million degrees

Chances of them attacking a carrier of ours are about zero.