Charles Oliveira, overrated ground game?

Charles has elite transitions and finishing instincts. He’s all offended. I love it
 
Orochimaru 大蛇丸 said:
Islam is a better wrestler so would most likely end up on top and win the grappling exchanges, but either guy who is on bottom would be in trouble
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Sambo is a more physical, more top-game-type grappling style. For sure Makhachev is going to win the grappling exchanges, fence-fighting exchanges, etc.

Also, and of critical importance, Makhachev is used to grappling Khabib Nurmagomedov on a daily basis. Olivera has nothing even remotely close to that level to train with.

I think Olivera's best chance is on the standup, TBH. Both Charles and Islam are tall for the weight, both men have thin necks, both men have small faces, and both have been KO'd.

If I were Olivera, I would be thinking about knocking-out Makhachev rather than trying to ground fight him. Olivera gets destroyed on the ground by Makhachev. The difference in strength and dominance are simply too great.
 
Lol there’s about 0% chance that Dustin submits Oliveira, unless he’s badly rocked or something like that.

His sub game is much better than Dustin’s.

Islam is a different deal. He’s a much better wrestler and more dominant positionally than both, you might call him a better grappler overall. However, Charles is still more proven as a pure offensive sub artist, and definitely has the best guard game at LW and possibly the UFC.
 
3rd Dan in BJJ and record number of subs in UFC. Sounds overrated alright
 
Heraclitus said:
Sambo is a more physical, more top-game-type grappling style. For sure Makhachev is going to win the grappling exchanges, fence-fighting exchanges, etc.

Also, and of critical importance, Makhachev is used to grappling Khabib Nurmagomedov on a daily basis. Olivera has nothing even remotely close to that level to train with.

I think Olivera's best chance is on the standup, TBH. Both Charles and Islam are tall for the weight, both men have thin necks, both men have small faces, and both have been KO'd.

If I were Olivera, I would be thinking about knocking-out Makhachev rather than trying to ground fight him. Olivera gets destroyed on the ground by Makhachev. The difference in strength and dominance are simply too great.
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If Oliveira was able to get him down (which Moises did) and got on top, Islam would be in trouble for sure
 
Peak Sherdog.

Galaxy brain shit from the ppl who brought you years of ‘Conor has underrated jits’ on the basis of that one X-guard sweep.
 
Orochimaru 大蛇丸 said:
If Oliveira was able to get him down (which Moises did) and got on top, Islam would be in trouble for sure
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Moises is a smaller, more muscular, fireplug-type fighter, while Olivera is taller and lankier.

While Olivera has a chance to finish anyone, it's true, remember he couldn't finish Pettis—and wound up getting finished by Pettis.

With Makhachev's absolute and utter superiority in ground control, and likely better all around physicality than Pettis, I just don't think Olivera is going to be able to pull it off, but you never know.
 
Heraclitus said:
Moises is a smaller, more muscular, fireplug-type fighter, while Olivera is taller and lankier.

While Olivera has a chance to finish anyone, it's true, remember he couldn't finish Pettis—and wound up getting finished by Pettis.

With Makhachev's absolute and utter superiority in ground control, and likely better all around physicality than Pettis, I just don't think Olivera is going to be able to pull it off, but you never know.
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That happened forever ago, but yeah I would pick Islam, I'm just saying whoever was on top would have the advantage
 
Orochimaru 大蛇丸 said:
That happened forever ago, but yeah I would pick Islam, I'm just saying whoever was on top would have the advantage
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At BJJ black belt is not going to be "on top of" a Russian Combat Sambo specialist.

On the ground, his only chance to win will be catching Makhachev from the bottom.

Again, that's possible, but I think he has a better chance of catching Makhachev standing, because IMO Olivera's striking is significantly more advanced than Makhachev's.
 
Fergelmince said:
Here he is getting submitted by Anthony Pettis
pettis-choke-oliveira.gif
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That was charlie olives 0.5, today we have Olives 2.0
 
Heraclitus said:
At BJJ black belt is not going to be "on top of" a Russian Combat Sambo specialist.

On the ground, his only chance to win will be catching Makhachev from the bottom.

Again, that's possible, but I think he has a better chance of catching Makhachev standing, because IMO Olivera's striking is significantly more advanced than Makhachev's.
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Moises took him down, which means Oliveira can take him down. I agree Islam is a better wrestler, but we just saw him get taken down lol. Moises jumped on his back and flew off because he got too excited, with Oliveira that could've been trouble.
 
Pretty sure I saw you writing Charles off before he won the belt. Maybe this is your way of coping with being wrong.
 
Orochimaru 大蛇丸 said:
Moises took him down, which means Oliveira can take him down. I agree Islam is a better wrestler, but we just saw him get taken down lol. Moises jumped on his back and flew off because he got too excited, with Oliveira that could've been trouble.
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Again, Islam got taken down by a fireplug-type fighter.

We disagree on how much that meant. I think Moses didn't lose the position because of "excitement," but because of how smoothly and casually Islam handled it, postured-down, and shook Moises off.

The real danger from Oliviera are going to be leg locks from the bottom, because I think Moises almost caught Islam, and Oliviera is significantly better at these than Moises.

It'll be an interesting fight for sure. I see Islam as similar to Oliviera. Both are tall for the weight, and calm, almost-emotionless fighters, both submission specialists as well.

I see Oliviera is more experienced and a bit trickier, whereas I see Islam as stronger and more physical. It's a very even matchup.
 
Heraclitus said:
Oliviera's BJJ is definitely elite.

And, while most people don't see this, but his striking game is becoming truly elite also.

That said, Oliviera has a thin neck and fragile face. He is not a physically tough man.

I think he and Dustin are going to make an excellent fight; however, Islam Makhachev will wreck Oliviera on the ground. Too physically strong for Oliviera to handle, equally great on the ground, but far more dominant.
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Dustin will KO him easily. Chuck is too weak. Chandler is a can. Chuck has nothing for Dustin standing or not he ground. Rip. Islam beats both, maybe not Dustin if he boxes him up. Islam doesn’t have the same presence as Khabib, he is vulnerable.
 
I agree.. His submission skills are unmatched in the UFC. His offense is a 10.

But he's still tap-able himself. He's like an elite Darrick Minner.

I do think Poirier could submit him, but the tko would come first.
 
Kdup said:
Dustin will KO him easily. Chuck is too weak. Chandler is a can. Chuck has nothing for Dustin standing or not he ground. Rip. Islam beats both, maybe not Dustin if he boxes him up. Islam doesn’t have the same presence as Khabib, he is vulnerable.
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I agree Islam is vulnerable to punches. That's already been proven, but you can see Islam's neck is skinny, and his face is fragile.

He is not Khabib Nurmagomedov, who was all but impervious to punches, with such a thick neck and block head.
 
Did you think Poirier could absolutely neutralize Tony on the ground? No.

Dustin better not play with Oliveira on the ground.
 
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