Chael Sonnen: Boxers hit much harder than MMA fighters, yet punchers are born?

[froggyluv]

Allow me to refute.

Training background:

TaeKwonDo.

This is bizarre man. What are you doing? Airpunching in a dark room to try and show caliber of punch force?? Why not go set up a camera -go hit a heavy or use a padholder and show your full form in a lighted area?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

This is bizarre man. What are you doing? Airpunching in a dark room to try and show caliber of punch force?? Why not go set up a camera -go hit a heavy or use a padholder and show your full form in a lighted area?

He has to demonstrate in the shadows because his hands are so lethal they can't be legally registered.

 

[Intermission]

This is bizarre man. What are you doing? Airpunching in a dark room to try and show caliber of punch force?? Why not go set up a camera -go hit a heavy or use a padholder and show your full form in a lighted area?

You can tell quite easily with or without lights and a bag what category I belong too

 

[Intermission]

In case you can't tell. I don't have room to move around. And I don't have money or room for a bag.

IM poor.

But I can punch. Because punchers are born!

 

[Intermission]

He has to demonstrate in the shadows because his hands are so lethal they can't be legally registered.

Too afraid to get beat up.

Although in all seriousness Im less confident in the street these days. When you are 20 and made of rubber you can just explode at any time.

In your 30s you would want to warm Up first. Get the muscles activated

 

[froggyluv]

You can tell quite easily with or without lights and a bag what category I belong too

Yeah, the guy who likes to throw herky jerky in the Dark... nothing can be ascertained of your punch power, or even technique in that setting at all - except that you seem to be trying to throw as fast as possible but your torque, proper leg thru hip thru shoulder as well as extension dont seem all that on point. Been in fight gyms since the 90's and i wouldnt say you'd stand out as a power guy. Look at the way your head snaps wildly with that throw - that dont indicate good body control with tension being in the wrong area. That also might be deluding you into thinking more action is going than it really is force-wise.

Sorry to hear about you financial situation - but honestly theres nothing stopping you from setting up you phone outside in a park or a cheap $10/day gym with a heavy bag. Plenty of broke hood rats broadcast with no problems lighting finding a lit up place

Also your doing all this to prove "Puncher are born"? The thing is, its not a binary answer. Yes, SOME punchers are just natural great punchers due to genetics, fast twitch, bone density, tendon strength and placement ,great elasticity - maybe all or maybe just a few of those components. Other great punchers need to be trained the proper kinetic chain first -they might not have a natural instinct for it and might have built up bad habits (such as Push punchers) and need to be first deconstructed and then built up properly. Its not a zero sum game -theres alot of variation in that mix. Emanuel Steward stated that Hearns was not a natural puncher, steward taught him how to unlock it.

Now of course everyone has a ceiling, and a guy like Hearns' ceiling is gonna be leagues better than your average fighter -but the point is that you shouldnt think you yourself know your maximum punching output unless years of tutelage under a really good boxing coach. TKD "coaches" aint gonna cut it...

 

[Intermission]

Yeah, the guy who likes to throw herky jerky in the Dark... nothing can be ascertained of your punch power, or even technique in that setting at all - except that you seem to be trying to throw as fast as possible but your torque, proper leg thru hip thru shoulder as well as extension dont seem all that on point.

I didnt say I was perfect...But There are plenty of famous fighters who throw worse crosses. Which I think is funny since Im on wellfare.

And I have been in a boxing gym... For two months.

 

[Intermission]

unless years of tutelage

Can learn it online, from watching other fighters, and pointers from boxers on the internet.

Thats how I did it.

I basically asked if its "right" until I got it right.

And now Its just in my system.

 

[Intermission]

Emanuel Steward stated that Hearns was not a natural puncher, steward taught him how to unlock it.

Thats the only counter example ever given. Literally. And we dont know the circumstances of it. Hearns could have been confused mechanically, been in poor condition,, we dont know why that SUPPOSED outlier exists

 

[froggyluv]

I didnt say I was perfect...But There are plenty of famous fighters who throw worse crosses. Which I think is funny since Im on wellfare.

And I have been in a boxing gym... For two months.

Throw worse crosses? You're comparing yourself to Pros via this video that literally reveals nothing of your effective punching power? Also, Its your forgetting that "punch power" dont just mean all punches. Guys can have a heavy hook but no straight or vice versa. Again your thinking here sees very locked in on something specific being the rule when its not.

 

[froggyluv]

if your in a boxing gym -then take your footage there?! Ask your coach.

 

[froggyluv]

Thats the only counter example ever given. Literally. And we dont know the circumstances of it. Hearns could have been confused mechanically, been in poor condition,, we dont know why that SUPPOSED outlier exists

Thats because its the most dramatic case -but even in your explanation example "Hearns could have been confused mechanically" -thats proving my point. Especially new guys. I use my own experience as my own proof - i was always extremely high fast twitch grow muscle really easy but light boned. Hips are also very fast, and flexible so i can generate alot of power in both punches and kicks. But for some reason, kicks were instinctive but punches were not. I alos spent alot of years power lifting/bodybuilding which reinforced a bad punching mechanic. Ive had the same coach tell me when i first walked in "Man, somma these kids walking in right off the street are better punchers than you!", to " you punch harder than my heavyweight". My coach at the time was a retired Ammy 82-4 boxer , ghetto af and didnt like to give anyone compliments ever. Because id continue to lift heavy, id always fall back into losing my snap for my straights and rotators would hurt my hooks (heavy benching is contraindictacted for smooth boxing)

Ive seen so many guys throughout the years -some guys had what i call frat boy juice power but they'd get smacked around by skinny guys with whip like punches (similar to tommy hearn build) -now was that just finesse? No, they also learn to utilize their genetic frame properly.

 

[Intermission]

Thats because its the most dramatic case -but even in your explanation example "Hearns could have been confused mechanically" -thats proving my point. Especially new guys. I use my own experience as my own proof - i was always extremely high fast twitch grow muscle really easy but light noned. Hips are also very fast, and flexible so i can generate alot of power in both punches and kicks. But for some reason, kicks were instinctive but punches were not. I alos spent alot of years power lifting/bodybuilding which reinfored a bad punching mechanic. Ive had the same coach tell me when i first walked in "Man, somma these kids walking in right off the street are better punchers than you!", to " you punch harder than my heavyweight". My coach at the time was a retired Ammy 82-4 boxer , ghetto af and didnt like to give anyone compliments ever. Because id continue to lift heavy, id always fall back into losing my snap for my straights and rotators would hurt my hooks (heavy benching is contraindictacted for smooth boxing)

Ive seen so many guys throughout the years -some guys had what i call frat boy juice power but they'd get smacked around by skinny guys with whip like punches (similar to tommy hearn build) -now was that just finesse? No, they also learn to utilize their genetic frame properly.

The statement that punchers are born is not that if you have good technique, it¨s hard wired... its a statement about power potential. Presented with the same teaching tools in front of them, some people will naturally punch hard, others will never punch hard.


You were pushing your punches coming from a lifting background. It¨¨s actually a common error regardless of background,. and you can still punch very hard doing it

As for your statement about the different techniques.. They overlap so much in hip mechanics that one will throw hard shots from them too. They might not have good form however and avoid them.

I never lifted but I just about maxed out the Smith chest press machine in a month or two. and Im a skinny little bitch with wilder physique. punching power is obviously related to strength, and this can fluctuate depending on how good of shape you are in.

 

[Intermission]

except that you seem to be trying to throw as fast as possible

I have to. Fast twitch muscle fiber is very simple when you get older... Use it or lose it.

 

[Intermission]

Throw worse crosses? You're comparing yourself to Pros via this video that literally reveals nothing of your effective punching power?

Yes, there are pros from a mechanial perspective who throw worse crosses, that are still not bad. Ryan Garcia would trade crosses with me.

 

[froggyluv]

The statement that punchers are born is not that if you have good technique, it¨s hard wired... its a statement about power potential. Presented with the same teaching tools in front of them, some people will naturally punch hard, others will never punch hard.


You were pushing your punches coming from a lifting background. It¨¨s actually a common error regardless of background,. and you can still punch very hard doing it

As for your statement about the different techniques.. They overlap so much in hip mechanics that one will throw hard shots from them too. They might not have good form however and avoid them.

I never lifted but I just about maxed out the Smith chest press machine in a month or two. and Im a skinny little bitch with wilder physique. punching power is obviously related to strength, and this can fluctuate depending on how good of shape you are in.

Jesus man your oversimplifying things and then making broad sweeping generalizations which again arent binary. Tommy Hearns had been training Boxing since he was 5...FIVE !! You think he hadnt been exposed to top level trainers and learning all the technique in the world until Steward? You dont know enough about nor my training history nor when how and what type of lifting ive done in my life which is quite extensive at 54yo of age -to think you can ascertain "why my punches were off". Its multi-faceted. No offense man but are you on the spectrum? -I dont think you get nuance very easily.

Anyways -glad your training and hope you can continue with the sweet science. Be careful of thinking you know all theres to know and youve somehow already "peaked out" with youtube instructional, some TMA and 2 months of Boxing.

Im out.

PS: Sorry but Smith machine aint jack in lifting. Ive known guys that would load up the bar to the end with plates squatting -yet they couldnt handle a mere 315 ATG for 1 rep. It has a place in training but means nothing in the world of Strength Training

 

[pugilistico]

My max one rep OHP was 75kg but on the smith machine I can rep 8-10 per set with the same weight. Seated too. Smith machine lifts don't count imo.

 

[Intermission]

My max one rep OHP was 75kg but on the smith machine I can rep 8-10 per set with the same weight. Seated too. Smith machine lifts

I did the second highest after one month. I left the gym and never tried highest.

 

[YourBoss]

You can train power. Your can only max out your genetic potential. The sport of boxing selects for people that punch harder and have a great chin. None of these statements contradict each other, so Chael is right while the "punchers are born" stuff is also correct.

 

[Intermission]

Jesus man your oversimplifying things and then making broad sweeping generalizations which again arent binary. Tommy Hearns had been training Boxing since he was 5...FIVE !! You think he hadnt been exposed to top level trainers and learning all the technique in the world until Steward? You dont know enough about nor my training history nor when how and what type of lifting ive done in my life which is quite extensive at 54yo of age -to think you can ascertain "why my punches were off". Its multi-faceted. No offense man but are you on the spectrum? -I dont think you get nuance very easily.

Anyways -glad your training and hope you can continue with the sweet science. Be careful of thinking you know all theres to know and youve somehow already "peaked out" with youtube instructional, some TMA and 2 months of Boxing.

Im out.

PS: Sorry but Smith machine aint jack in lifting. Ive known guys that would load up the bar to the end with plates squatting -yet they couldnt handle a mere 315 ATG for 1 rep. It has a place in training but means nothing in the world of Strength Training

I have trained martial arts a lot of years and switching to boxing did take time. Maybe three or four seasons before it clicked. But "punchers are born" simply means hard punchers cant be taught.

Technique however is not born. The way someone throws a textbook punch in boxing is not intuitive IMO.