International Centenary: Chinese Communist Party (1921-2021)

[IGIT]

@Deorum

The way I see it the Soviet union failed the comercial test they havent produced interesting products even for their own region the Soviet block.

If we will look it and simplify this lets take a look at entertainment..

Video games.. The western aligned markets like Japan produced Mario! Pacman! And other early video game classics.

What video game the Soviets made popular? Tetris a fucking puzzle game.

It would not have been popular had Nintendon't not marketed it with Jimboy!

Now did I say Computer video games?

Eh so what's inside Video game consoles?

Nope its not Pubic Hair....

Chips! Silicon Chips! And now we are seeing China agressively trying to win the Chips war.!

Like what Deorum said in his previous comentary about Chips its one if not the most defining advantage the west had over the Soviets!

Its some thing the West had so much lead its not even funny.

Maybe the "imperialist West " will strike back at China at some point bribing their industry leaders to buy Western chips instead of developing their own and undermining their own programs.

It wont be pretty some will cry fists will be thrown,
Will Elon musk move to China?

Will Jack Ma' moved to the US?

Will Xi poos over confidence result some resentment?

hi ho ShinkanPo,

i guess at the end of the day, i'm ok with China joining and perhaps surpassing the US as the world economic power.

*holds up his hand*

bear with me, alrighty? it means, in a way, we won. diplomacy and trade won. we killed them with Coca Cola. we didn't end up blowing each other up (always a possibility with nuclear adversaries).

we're partners in trade and our fates are intertwined. that's a good thing because it makes it less likely we'll actually put a gun to each other's head. we have mutual interests. these are all good things. it suggests a high likelyhood of a non-belligerent relationship.

they became more like us. as their middle class rises, i think its also inevitable that they'll become even more like us - a balancing act that Xi, or his successor, will have to manage.

i think its all good.

time to head out to dinner. good seeing you, ShinkanPo.

- IGIT

 

[Deorum]

hiya Err,

the treatment that China has dealt out to the Uyghurs is terrible. ditto the denizens of Tibet. terrible.
i wasn't speaking in absolutes. i said that, generally speaking, the fortunes of the China's citizenry have soared under Xi - and this is undeniable.

also, the average Chinese citizen isn't some untrained savage, lol. they know what their freedoms are and are not. they are, believe it or not, just like Americans in this respect - we also know what are and are not our freedoms. these are simple concepts.

the reason why you see so little political dissent (and zero sustained political dissent) in China is the same reason you rarely see jihadist beheadings in the United States. its illegal and general society finds it distasteful.

*high fives*

- IGIT

Do you think these folx (lmao) really give a fuck about some Muslims in Western China? Have you seen what they think of Muslims on this forum? It's the same kind of thing with how gays are treated (officially) in Muslim majority countries. It's faux concern trolling and 'wedge issue' nonsense of input/output with every outgroup and "other" they hate. @Khabib Khanate knows this. It's an amusing game albeit not all that subtle.

*Muses*

 

[IGIT]

Perhaps you are right, the people in China could be culturally less inclined to engage in protest because it’s considered distasteful. However, is this due to a natural inclination that developed culturally over decades and centuries, or perhaps due to social conditioning based upon the strict and rigid control the communist party maintains over education and the indoctrination of children into that system. It seems to me that the Chinese are quite spirited in their will to protest, with Tianenman square and Hong Kong coming to mind. I would be inclined to say that the absence of protesting within China is partially related to an unhealthy fear the people have of their government.

hiya Err (last post for now),

i'll just say, as a first generation chinese-American, i feel i got a good take on the mindset of my fellow chinamen(and women).

we're just an orderly people, lol. we're practical and respect authority. we stay married. we think getting arrested is just about the highest form of dishonor one can bring to the family. the golden rule is "go to school and don't you dare fuck up". its really pretty old fashioned. that's the vibe in China.

folks in China really do trust their government in ways that i think Americans have an inability to relate to (Americans really have a vivid sense of contempt for their government).

- IGIT

 

[ShinkanPo]

hi ho ShinkanPo,

i guess at the end of the day, i'm ok with China joining and perhaps surpassing the US as the world economic power.

*holds up his hand*

bear with me, alrighty? it means, in a way, we won. diplomacy and trade won. we killed them with Coca Cola. we didn't end up blowing each other up (always a possibility with nuclear adversaries).

we're partners in trade and our fates are intertwined. that's a good thing because it makes it less likely we'll actually put a gun to each other's head. we have mutual interests. these are all good things. it suggests a high likelyhood of a non-belligerent relationship.

they became more like us. as their middle class rises, i think its also inevitable that they'll become even more like us - a balancing act that Xi, or his successor, will have to manage.

i think its all good.

time to head out to dinner. good seeing you, ShinkanPo.

- IGIT

Funny enough when some CTers talk about the Great Reset they think its the American big tech boses like Bill Gates,Steve Jobs comming back to life,Elon and Jeff Bozo that will take over America and get their guns.

But nobody is talking about that the real great Reset is US big tech will get BTFO by Chinese Tech and a "Reset" in Geopolitical center of power.

 

[IGIT]

Do you think these folx (lmao) really give a fuck about some Muslims in Western China? Have you seen what they think of Muslims on this forum? It's the same kind of thing with how gays are treated (officially) in Muslim majority countries. It's faux concern trolling and 'wedge issue' nonsense of input/output with every outgroup and "other" they hate. @Khabib Khanate knows this. It's an amusing game albeit not all that subtle.

*Muses*

hiya Deorum, hello hello!

"Do you think these folx (lmao) really give a fuck about some Muslims in Western China?".

is that what you're asking me?

lol.

of course not. its difficult to even address the issue with a straight face. its been funny, though, to see all the exotic spellings that folks have for the word, "Uyghur".

- IGIT

 

[Err]

As we all take this great leap forward into the new year together, let’s hope and pray for a cultural revolution which leads to a world in which we can all live and work together in peace.

 

[Deorum]

Funny enough when some CTers talk about the Great Reset they think its the American big tech boses like Bill Gates,Steve Jobs comming back to life,Elon and Jeff Bozo that will take over America and get their guns.

But nobody is talking about that the real great Reset is US big tech will get BTFO by Chinese Tech and a "Reset" in Geopolitical center of power.

 

[Deorum]

lol.

of course not. its difficult to even address the issue with a straight face. its been funny, though, to see all the exotic spellings that folks have for the word, "Uyghur".

You're definitely doing your thing in here and I'm not even mad, haha. I started this thread in part to gauge how much people actually know about the party and country given how prevalent "Fuck The CCP" mantra is.

@Deorum

Spoiler

(Korean brehs are crazy)

 

[Deorum]

This is a silly analogy.

The Kim Dynasty has held back the North Korean people and their living standards. The CCP has overseen the largest improvements in quality of life in human history in terms of the amount of people pulled out of poverty. And that's why they still see broad support: they're supremely competent and technocratic. They're currently more effective in terms of economic development than any Western country.

The last two periods of the Kim dynasty have been classic hereditary monarchism. Like the Tsarist autocracy: absolutely zero institutional competence or popular input. They make Stalin seem like a technocrat.

Xi is no joke. China is no joke. China is completely and utterly different. the geopolitical mallet that they'll wield (which is already kind of formidable) is only going to get bigger as its massive population advances fully into middle class earning power, meaning; every nation in the world is going to want to do business in China.

They want to see their country flourish. Xi is a scientist by training; he's not some lunatic general who led a junta to seize power. These are sophisticated people. Trump is a barbarian compared to the current leadership in Beijing.

Two Centenaries (两个一百年) is a set of goals advanced by General Secretary Xi Jinping following the 18th National Congress of the Communist Party of China held in 2012. It is said to be the basic foundation for achieving the Chinese Dream, another ideology advanced by Xi. The concept was first articulated at the 15th Party Congress held in 1997 during the term of then party General Secretary Jiang Zemin.

However, apart from occasional pronouncements in party publications, this concept was not widely discussed again until Xi assumed the party leadership in 2012. Since then, it has become a major part of party slogans, often recited in news reports, at conferences, and training sessions for party officials.[1][2]

The "centenaries" refer to two 100-year anniversaries:

* The centenary of the founding of the Communist Party of China in 2021, at which point, a full Xiaokang society would have been achieved. While "Xiaokang" – roughly meaning "moderately well-off" – is a relatively abstract theory rooted in both Confucianism and socialist ideology, the party has outlined this in objective, quantitative terms: a doubling of the 2010 per capita income figures.

* The centenary of the founding of the People's Republic of China in 2049, at which point, China will have become a "strong, democratic, civilized, harmonious, and modern socialist country."

A columnist for Asia-Pacific current affairs publication The Diplomat suggested that Xi's emphasis on these goals gives objective evaluation criteria for the performance of the CCP prior to his departure from office, and that achieving these goals will be a major test to the legitimacy of CCP rule in the country.

 

[Deorum]

Pretty sure alot of people starved in the great leap forward.

The estimated range is between 33 to 55 million deaths.

 

[Deorum]

The thread needs a lifeline until Chairman Xi makes another power move, @salamander. You're one of the most staunchly anti-CCP people in the world - up there with Nancy Pelosi lol (srs) - and easily among the top three or four on Sherdog at articulating why that is.

 

[KnightTemplar]

And when they take military action I'll support the defense from countries like the USA. What I'm not going to get on board with is propaganda used to dehumanize a new econinic power in order to gain war support. If China has a revolution let it happen from within. I'm not going to ever support more aggressive action from our government

No one is seriously talking about waging war on China. They have one of the largest armies in the world and, much more importantly, one of largest stockpiles of nuclear weapons. But anything that can be done short of all out war to weaken and destabilise China should be done.

The CCP are the scum of the earth and an existential threat to anyone who doesn't want to submit to them. Anyone who thinks different simply hasn't been paying attention

 

[Gunny]

SanchoMF my friend,

i have no hopes. i think they win, lol. i want the US to achieve a more positive and mutually beneficial relationship with China, to be honest.

*ponders*

there is still great poverty in china, of course. and areas of Western china still look very stone agish, for sure. the thing is, despite all that, a country with cities that look like this doesn't make for a good villain. they look successful. they look like they are doing alot of winning, to me.

lol.

i mean, sheesh. these images are actually scarier to me than anything i've read about China's military. these places look sleek. modern. futuristic. Ridley Scott on LSD.

as a fine arts major, i have to tell you; i find these pieces of architecture intimidating.

i predict that the West will find the allure of investing in China too compelling to ignore; its just impossible. and the West will more or less accede to its demands (since generally speaking, China respects the sovereign nature of its trading partners - China doesn't ask or anyone to change its government; it just wants to do business).

there's just way, way, wayyyyy too much money there. and money is agnostic about things like nationalism - it knows no borders.

- IGIT

I've been to China several times for work and have definitely gotten that Blade Runner dystopian vibe - not only when visiting the big grand cities like Shanghai or Shenzhen but even moreso when you visit the places they don't really want you to see. Places like the manufacturing quarters of Dongguan just adjacent to Shenzhen where everyone lives squalor - three to a room in these prison style dormitories on their factory campuses.

I've also had an up close and personal view of the construction of one of those grand architectural marvels as well which I detailed in this post.

I may have told this story before but I experienced, first hand, China’s peculiar economic strategy of growth via building projects on one of my trips.

Firstly, I was there because we had entered into a distribution relationship with an architect who is one of the CCP’s “chosen ones” for these large scale public works projects. The guy was a total kook. Every meeting involved him bloviating for 45 minutes at a time on whatever topic was being discussed. This was a guy whose personality was cultivated by a reality where there is no such thing as failure as every mistake and inefficiency is rewarded with more work and a more pots of gold. So your project was late, over budget and required massive reworks? Great, that means you created more jobs. This is the system that molded his notions of capitalism and, of course, he was an absolute expert on everything.

Per the above I was skeptical of his plans for distributing our line from the outset. The business model he proposed sounded entirely unrealistic and it seemed to me that he his knowledge of our our industry was virtually nil. Nevertheless what he was proposing would involve the immediate sale of several hundred thousand in floor samples and an opportunity for us to learn about the Chinese market. Skepticism aside, we entered the agreement and planned a trip to Shenzhen for a trade show where we would be shown in this grand new exhibition hall that our architect friend had designed.

Brief interlude to mention that there was no reason for this new exhibition hall to exist. China already had more furniture trade shows than made any sense and adding another would do nothing to stimulate anyone’s business beyond the builders of the hall itself.

Anyway, we arrived two days before the opening of the show to find the hall in total disarray. They were many months behind schedule and had a hard deadline as the show opening was imminent. On order to get the building whipped into a semi serviceable state the CCP had imported 5000 peasants from the countryside and put them to work doing - well, stuff. First problem with this is that the building exits weren’t designed to accommodate the traffic of 5000 workers. Solution? Someone drove a bulldozer through an exterior wall and put plywood down over the rubble for worker to walk on. The building’s grand central atrium was supposed to have walkways lined with plate glass safety railings. These were propped in place but not secured so that anyone leaning on one would have fallen to their demise. The flooring in the hallways was half complete in the sense that marble tiles were installed in the center third of the halls but not the outer 2/3rds. Presumable they were waiting on a contrasting tile that failed to arrive. Delays of this nature I can understand. Their solution, not so much. They decided to throw down concrete powder in the outer 2/3rds to bring the level up to the marble tiles that were already on place. Presumably this was to be removed after the show so the actual tiles could be installed. Result? Well for one all the carts moving furniture to the showrooms predictably broke just about every perimeter tile that had been put down. The concert also kicked up and extraordinary amount of dust which settled in the escalator mechanics resulting in a loud screeching noice and ruined gears in every unit in the building. Finally, throughout he course of the show, foot traffic, humidity and random spills had essentially caused the concrete to set forcing an expensive and labor intensive removal after the show.

I could go on and on but I think you get it. The big point is that this is not an economy that plays by the market dynamics of western capitalism. In China this clustefuck was considered a resounding success for all the work opportunities it presented. Where global trade is concerned China will gladly run similar losing scenarios. They fund this through a combination of subsidies and the gained economic benefit from siphoning industries away from their trading partners. A fundamental component of this is extraordinary public debt - much of which they try to hide from the world but that is readily apparent when your there, in person and can take in the absurdity of their economy. Importantly, this model is a scheme that will eventually and inevitably crash. When it does, we will be well served to have decoupled our economy from their as much as possible. In the meantime, it’s absolutely correct that we take steps to mitigate the damage their subsidies and mercantilism do to our industries.

I really didn't even get to what a clusterfuck that project was. I could have trippled the legnth of that post and still had more to share. It was the sort of shit show that really can never exist in an open economy. But the point is, those projects are intended to make you feel the way you describe. When you see them, particularly from far away and DEFINITELY with no view of their inner workings, you are supposed succumb to the idea that this is an inevitable rising power that no nation can resist and all must accommodate. You get a very different sense of the place when you get to see the 5000 goobers stumbling around like the three stooges, fucking up left and right as they slap together these monuments that are literally falling apart before they're even completed.

 

[SammyPops]

China isn't going away anytime soon but that doesn't mean we have to make it our enemy. It always seems to me that USA wants to force its ideology onto other countries. If they don't embrace democracy they are evil and need to be wiped off the map isn't a good approach. Everyone is mad at China for COVID-19 and rightfully so but I think its dangerous to keep using them as a boogeyman for every single problem in the world. I've lived in China for a decade and I learned that the people there mostly love what their government has done and very few people speak about USA the way Americans do about China. They seem to all agree that USA and China should try and be allies rather than enemies.

In before the cry babies tell me I worship the CCP for not wanting to escalate into a war.

China is our Nazi or USSr. We either face the evil or let it grow.

It does seem like we are too weak, have too many Cninese living here (Canada) to try and stand up to them.

My nation's independance is over.

Fingers crossed the US and other still have strength to resist.

 

[Deorum]

Well, yeah. China is considerably more powerful than where it stood when he took over as General Secretary. I've watched them close the gap on America in the Nature Index by over 50% and make significant strides in Quantum Key Distribution technology. The ascent is almost kind of terrifying, got me clutching my semiconductors at night. <45>

It's not as if he made the power grab on his own, the party clearly wanted to install heavy handed leadership continuity over an extended period and approved the move in lockstep. They probably found it necessary if the CCP was going to implement the strenous and temporary economically slowing reforms required to rebalance itself from being investment-led to a more sustainable consumer-led growth model, as well as ditch the soft power foreign policy mask. Hu Jintao was what this forum would call a "cuck", by comparison. Xi is a bull... in a China shop?



A Superpower. (!)

 

[D3THRONED]

Ah yes. China is a very "nice" looking prison for thought. The lengths people go to try to make a turd polished.

 

[Deorum]

I've been to China several times for work and have definitely gotten that Blade Runner dystopian vibe - not only when visiting the big grand cities like Shanghai or Shenzhen but even moreso when you visit the places they don't really want you to see. Places like the manufacturing quarters of Dongguan just adjacent to Shenzhen where everyone lives squalor - three to a room in these prison style dormitories on their factory campuses.

I've also had an up close and personal view of the construction of one of those grand architectural marvels as well which I detailed in this post.

The true architectural marvels of China such as the supertall neo-futurism skyscrapers in Shanghai were actually designed by American firms (SOM, KPF, 2DEFINE) and those are legit incredible. I admittedly enjoyed my time there but didn't venture out of the central area of the city much and the 'types of places' I did go were occupied by at least 50% western ex-pats and other tourists.

 

[Natural Order]

As much as I truly believe China to be a massive threat to democracy and the West in the coming decades, as others have noted they have a pretty big fucking dilemma......

One well placed shot on Three Gorges Dam and 3/4 of their economy and most of their productive people are wiped out instantly.

I thought a few years ago there were legit concerns of this thing failing on its own.......what happened? They fill some holes wih JB Weld and call it a day?

@Deorum can you shed some light on this crinkle in China's armour?

 

[Deorum]

Zazen melting down in a china thread...water is wet.

His avi is kind of cute though.

 

[Zazen]

China is our Nazi or USSr. We either face the evil or let it grow.

It does seem like we are too weak, have too many Cninese living here (Canada) to try and stand up to them.

My nation's independance is over.

Fingers crossed the US and other still have strength to resist.

This is where people like you lose me.

Why exactly is China evil but the USA constantly gets a free pass? We just had a president pardon tons of criminals including people who murdered women and children. That's on top of years of bombing families in the middle east. Estimates are we've killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and people just shrug their shoulders at that.

Can you imagine how bad people would freak out had the positions reverse? USA would have probably nuked China 10 times over if they did half of what we've done in the middle east.