Canada: Female Cop Drags Blackout Drunk student, steps on head

[TheGreatA]

you keep mentioning what you have been through or seen. no offence but that is not important to this conversation in any way.

I see it as important in the sense that I've dealt with these sorts of physical scenarios, and know to a degree what sort of emotions, reactions, physical responses they invoke in people, especially when it's an unusual/uncomfortable situation. A situation where you may have felt your health or even life was threatened. Not claiming any sort of special expertise, but then again, a modern-day cop is hardly a master of physical combat.

They're mostly just dudes who get paid a fairly lame wage and go through minimal training. They're dependent on people respecting the badge. Most military guys are probably better off physically and training-wise.

what that cop did is assault. it was not during scuffle. it was just assault. the only question is what should the consequence of that be. it should certainly not be less than those of a civilian and i think the consequences should be more strict for police.

she should be fired and do jail time. this is the only way to change the corrupt culture in the policing world. there is no other way. consequences for these cops actions are the only way to change their behavior.

they all need a dose of personal responsibility.

there are so many good cops and they are all being held down and held back by this type of behavior and culture. they need our support to change the way policing is carried out. you cant stand up for what is right as a cop without facing serious consequences from your own colleagues. this has got to change.

the only way is completely independent oversight and investigations and harsh penalties for cops that cross the line. gotta be tough on crime in this case imo.

Whatever. If that's your opinion then so be it.

In my opinion, if we double-down on that view, it would only lead to apathetic cops who prefer letting stuff go, to risking their jobs. Cops who are held hostage by the rule of the mob rather than being the authority which is obeyed by the mob.

The realities at ground-zero are different to how it might seem to people who are gas-lighted by media's carefully hand-picked incidents. People can work 10-year careers as police spotlessly, but if they commit one questionable thing on tape, which didn't even result in death or injury, they're made out to be horrible people. Yet you put pretty much any average Joe in those situations, and they shit their pants and go full psycho on the people they feel threatened by. What really separates the cop from the average person? The whole 6 months of training? The lame ass wages they are paid? How much can we legitimately expect, from people that are barely compensated any better than a guy working at McDonalds?

I just see that as too much. By all means, charge all the cops who caused death or injury by recklessness and incompetence. But if it's just somebody getting bruises, to me that's just not worth losing their job let alone being put in jail.

 

[terrapin]

I see it as important in the sense that I've dealt with these sorts of physical scenarios, and know to a degree what sort of emotions, reactions, physical responses they invoke in people, especially when it's an unusual/uncomfortable situation. A situation where you may have felt your health or even life was threatened. Not claiming any sort of special expertise, but then again, a modern-day cop is hardly a master of physical combat.

They're mostly just dudes who get paid a fairly lame wage and go through minimal training. They're dependent on people respecting the badge.



Whatever. If that's your opinion then so be it.

In my opinion, if we double-down on that view, it would only lead to apathetic cops who prefer letting stuff go, to risking their jobs. Cops who are held hostage by the rule of the mob rather than being the authority which is obeyed by the mob.

The realities at ground-zero are different to how it might seem to people who are gas-lighted by media's carefully hand-picked incidents. People can work 10-year careers as police spotlessly, but if they commit one questionable thing on tape, which didn't even result in death or injury, they're made out to be horrible people.

I just see that as too much. By all means, charge all the cops who caused death or injury by recklessness and incompetence. But if it's just somebody getting bruises, to me that's just not worth losing their job let alone being put in jail.

your whole argument is you think this so its how it ought to be. its not a very compelling position. no one cares what you think but if we are going to go by what "people" think then we have to go by majority and on those grounds you lose the argument.

i would rather just stand on principles already in place. the fact is that the cop assaulted a woman with no need or reason to do so. it was not necessary in any way whatsoever to complete here duties and so was obviously and factually excessive.

for your position to be law we would have to write it into law that excessive violence not necessary for the implementation of ones duties is allowed by police officers.

good luck with that.

 

[terrapin]

^^^^^^

also its irrelevant if they are made out to be good or bad people. its about the law. if a cop assaults a human being they should go to jail and lose their right to police the public having shown themselves to be incapable of it.

they need our help to change the culture and weed out the loser cops with issues so the whole culture can change for the better.

good police need help to be good police.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Lol. Well, since you're going to be insane, I guess there's not much choice.

Yeah, I'm the one who's insane.

 

[TheGreatA]

your whole argument is you think this so its how it ought to be. its not a very compelling position. no one cares what you think but if we are going to go by what "people" think then we have to go by majority and on those grounds you lose the argument.

i would rather just stand on principles already in place. the fact is that the cop assaulted a woman with no need or reason to do so. it was not necessary in any way whatsoever to complete here duties and so was obviously and factually excessive.

for your position to be law we would have to write it into law that excessive violence not necessary for the implementation of ones duties is allowed by police officers.

good luck with that.

My argument is not "how it ought to be", that's your argument. My argument is, this is how it is.

I do not believe that excessive violence should be allowed or over-looked, but I also do not think that "excessive violence", when talking about a light push/"kick" to a person who's mouthing off and not co-operating, needs to be punished by putting the cop in prison.

I believe that police officers should be allowed to make judgment calls regarding the use of physical force, to a degree which they believe to be necessary in order to get a situation under control. If they make a bad judgment call, they should be reprimanded. If these bad judgments continue to pile up, they should be fired. If the bad judgment call results in death or serious bodily injury, we can start talking about more serious repercussions such as prison.

That's how the police have operated, and should operate, as far as I'm concerned. They do not apply to the same standard as what would be applied to a citizen, because that would obviously be ludicrous, considering the amount of physical interactions they are forced to go through, as a nature of their jobs. "Excesses", from the average person's point of view, are bound to happen, when we are talking about people who repeat these scenarios on a daily basis for a number of years.

 

[terrapin]

My argument is not "how it ought to be", that's your argument. My argument is, this is how it is.

I do not believe that excessive violence should be allowed or over-looked, but I also do not think that "excessive violence", when talking about a light push/"kick" to a person who's mouthing off and not co-operating, needs to be punished by putting the cop in prison.

I believe that police officers should be allowed to make judgment calls regarding the use of physical force, to a degree which they believe to be necessary in order to get a situation under control. If they make a bad judgment call, they should be reprimanded. If the bad judgment call results in death or serious bodily injury, we can start talking about more serious repercussions such as prison.

That's how the police have operated, and should operate. They do not apply the same standard as what would apply to a citizen, to the police, because that would obviously be ludicrous, considering the amount of physical interactions they are forced to go through, as a nature of their jobs.

we can agree to disagree. your argument has been primarily an appeal to authority. your own.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

you keep mentioning what you have been through or seen. no offence but that is not important to this conversation in any way.

what that cop did is assault. it was not during scuffle. it was just assault. the only question is what should the consequence of that be. it should certainly not be less than those of a civilian and i think the consequences should be more strict for police.

she should be fired and do jail time. this is the only way to change the corrupt culture in the policing world. there is no other way. consequences for these cops actions are the only way to change their behavior.

they all need a dose of personal responsibility.

there are so many good cops and they are all being held down and held back by this type of behavior and culture. they need our support to change the way policing is carried out. you cant stand up for what is right as a cop without facing serious consequences from your own colleagues. this has got to change.

the only way is completely independent oversight and investigations and harsh penalties for cops that cross the line. gotta be tough on crime in this case imo.

So... you want to counter punitive justice with... punitive justice?
You don't think for a second that "these fuckers are out of control and need to learn that there are consequences for their behaviour" is maybe the sort of thinking that creates problems in the first place?

The cop would have been an idiot to remain in a room, alone with an ostensibly suicidal girl.

On topic, I've been on the receiving end of very similar, but far rougher treatment from a former cop working security; you guys really need to calm down with the use of terms like "police brutality" and the like. It's getting to be like the West's abuse of the term "rape", etc, to the point that being pinched on the ass means you've been sexually assaulted and someone's life needs to be ruined.
Personal accounts do have a place in a conversation that has clearly been hijacked by emotions.

Did the cop cross the line? Yeah - that dragging was bad. And the shove with her foot looked bad. But then, maybe raise physical fitness standards for police officers.
Women and hobbits should probably not be out from behind a desk.

From what I can see, the problem with this situation was that:
A) The officer is small and weak, so her definition of "proportionate force" is not what someone else's might be; and
B) A cop was dealing with a mental health emergency - cops are not mental health professionals.

What kind of fuckwit thought it was a good idea to have cops doing "wellness checks"?

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Yeah, I'm the one who's insane.

That is correct.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

So, I don't really give a shit a out this because I'm going to assume the person being dragged was probably playing dead to not be removed from the building and the cop lost her cool.

She shouldn't be a cop if her training is that bad though. Should have dragged her by the feet?

 

[Skarr]

Imagine someone stepping on your head like that while you're completely prone and handcuffed on your stomach. The woman was injured by it and there is documentation of this. I'm calling bullshit on all of your claims.

again...no one stepped on her head...stop being melodramatic, she may have been injured in the drag or something we didnt see in the video...she certainly wasnt injured from what youre going on about was a step on/stomp....I have no idea why the broad was dragged thru the hallways....or if that was needed to be done in the least....my whole point about this is simply calling that stepping on someone's head and/or stomping them is completely misleading...it was neither....nothing youre going to say about it is going to convince me otherwise because Im looking right at it and seeing the contact and seeing the reaction from the contact and its leaving my baffled as to how you ((and others)) can watch that and actually think its anything((the shoving of the head by the foot part specifically)) worth mentioning....

there are waaaay worse things going on with the police all over this country and for surely in the US, things that are actually mistreatment, abuse of power and paramount to assault.....this is not one of tthose things and trying to make it into one of those things ...................completely downplays other ...actual serious violations of protocol by the police

you quite obviously have some need to shit on police officers to the point of blind retardation.....who would I be to get in the way of that.....by all means ....carry on....whatever floats your boat....

 

[SmilinDesperado]

If she was actually as violent and as suicidal as portrayed by the cop, then she should probably feel lucky that she's alive.

I'd rate being alive above having a few bruises from having acted like a drunken, psychotic maniac.

Cops, for sure, aren't the best social workers out there but if you pull a box-cutter on them and resist arrest, well, you probably shouldn't expect the best possible customer service.

This doesn't make any sense.
What is up with this subservient attitude towards cops? They aren't your parents. They aren't your big brother, or the neighborhood bully. They don't get to use your face as a punching bag when they had a bad day. They are there to serve and protect.


Can things get rough with a drunk or druggie, requring a cop to have to get a bit rough to subdue and restrain someone? Of course.
But this chick had her hands cuffed behind her back. That is the end of the battle.
"At least you didn't die" is a retardedly low bar. What is the thought process of someone that sees no problem in dragging a clearly troubled, drunk, subdued, and suicidal girl by her arms like a ragdoll, and then puts her foot on her head, and pulls her up by her hair? There is something iredeemably wrong with that person.

lol Talk about customer service, what do you think happens to anybody else in any other job that did the equivalent of that to a customer?

 

[Damien Karras]

Canadian cops taking a page out ouf the American Police Intervention Handbook.

There is much less tolerance for that here so I expect a massive investigation to unfold with Trudeau crying on camera for the eleventh time.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Canadian cops taking a page out ouf the American Police Intervention Handbook.

There is much less tolerance for that here so I expect a massive investigation to unfold with Trudeau crying on camera for the eleventh time.

There was another one in Canada right before this one that ended with the cops going full 'MURICA and killing the guy on a 'wellness check' as well.

 

[TheGreatA]

This doesn't make any sense.
What is up with this subservient attitude towards cops? They aren't your parents. They aren't your big brother, or the neighborhood bully. They don't get to use your face as a punching bag when they had a bad day. They are there to serve and protect.


Can things get rough with a drunk or druggie, requring a cop to have to get a bit rough to subdue and restrain someone? Of course.
But this chick had her hands cuffed behind her back. That is the end of the battle.
"At least you didn't die" is a retardedly low bar. What is the thought process of someone that sees no problem in dragging a clearly troubled, drunk, subdued, and suicidal girl by her arms like a ragdoll, and then puts her foot on her head, and pulls her up by her hair? There is something iredeemably wrong with that person.

lol Talk about customer service, what do you think happens to anybody else in any other job that did the equivalent of that to a customer?

It's not the end of the battle if she apparently had pills all over the place, while begging to be killed.

You have two options at that point, to either move her ass or get sued for negligence, in case she dies from whatever she has possibly taken. I've had a case among people I know which was basically the exact same scenario, where the person involved needed to be dragged the fuck out kicking and screaming.

It didn't even come across our minds to start complaining about the cops who may have saved that person's life.

Of course I come from a country where 95% of the people trust cops, so it's just a different environment. Cops are also way better trained/compensated for their efforts. You'll also never see a lone female cop being put in such a situation. These problems go higher up than just one lone cop who gets thrown under the bus. You can keep doing that but it won't fix anything.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

It's not the end of the battle if she apparently had pills all over the place, while begging to be killed.

You have two options at that point, to either move her ass or get sued for negligence, in case she dies from whatever she has possibly taken. I've had a case among people I know which was basically the exact same, where the person involved needed to be dragged the fuck out kicking and screaming.

It didn't even come across our minds to start complaining about the cops who may have saved that person's life.

Of course I come from a country where 95% of the people trust cops, so it's just a different environment. Cops are also way better trained/compensated for their efforts.

How is it not the end of the battle if she's cuffed with her hands behind her back? She can't get to the pills while cuffed and you move her out of reach.
We have a video. The chick is clearly out of it. She wasn't some amped up coke head that was trying to headbutt or drop kick her.

The cop didn't have a cellphone or radio with her to call for help? She couldn't of knocked on a neighbor's door to get them to call 911?
She couldn't of dragged her to her bed or a couch to rest while she got help? She couldn't of waited with her in her apartment for help/backup?
The ONLY option was to drag her by her cuffed arms , put a foot on her head, and pull her up by her hair?

 

[TheGreatA]

How is it not the end of the battle if she's cuffed with her hands behind her back? She can't get to the pills while cuffed and you move her out of reach.
We have a video. The chick is clearly out of it. She wasn't some amped up coke head that was trying to headbutt or drop kick her.

The cop didn't have a cellphone or radio with her to call for help? She couldn't of knocked on a neighbor's door to get them to call 911?
She couldn't of dragged her to her bed or a couch to rest while she got help? She couldn't of waited with her in her apartment for help/backup?
The ONLY option was to drag her by her cuffed arms , put a foot on her head, and pull her up by her hair?

There were melatonin and acetaminophen pills scattered about and a nearly empty wine bottle. Court documents say the officer took away the boxcutter from Wang, who was "behaving in a bizarre and erratic manner."

In the court documents, the officer says she believed Wang posed a threat to herself and to others. The officer says Wang did not follow orders, swore excessively, repeatedly asked to be killed and swung her arms around until Browning was able to handcuff her.

Browning said she thought Wang might need urgent medical or psychiatric help, and sought to take her into custody under the Mental Health Act. But the plaintiff refused to leave the apartment on her own.

 

[Damien Karras]

This doesn't make any sense.
What is up with this subservient attitude towards cops? They aren't your parents. They aren't your big brother, or the neighborhood bully. They don't get to use your face as a punching bag when they had a bad day. They are there to serve and protect.


Can things get rough with a drunk or druggie, requring a cop to have to get a bit rough to subdue and restrain someone? Of course.
But this chick had her hands cuffed behind her back. That is the end of the battle.
"At least you didn't die" is a retardedly low bar. What is the thought process of someone that sees no problem in dragging a clearly troubled, drunk, subdued, and suicidal girl by her arms like a ragdoll, and then puts her foot on her head, and pulls her up by her hair? There is something iredeemably wrong with that person.

lol Talk about customer service, what do you think happens to anybody else in any other job that did the equivalent of that to a customer?

My dad is a retired cop. He was shot at, run after with a knife, and gotten into many altercations with violent perps. His opinion based on the video footage he's seen is there is a deep cultural problem in current law enforcement. He can't fathom why anyone would kneel on a man's neck for 8 minutes, or push a non-threatening elderly man to the ground, or shoot any unarmed person in the back as they are running away even if it was following a physical confrontation, and that none of these go unpunished.

I had a long talk about it with him and he told me there were times where things got heated and he got emotional and he felt tempted to go hard on the person who attacked him, and this includes the time he arrested a young man and was swarmed by a mob of his friends who surrounded his cruiser and they threw a large stone through the windshield with the nearest help being 40 minutes away. He didn't start the car and mow them over, or pull out his gun and started shooting. Instead, he released the guy he had arrested (after having obtained his identity), and negotiated his way out. They did go back to arrest the kid along with several of the people who attacked my dad, but nobody got hurt. He says too many cops don't use their heads anymore and react impulsively, and don't take to heart their social responsibility. Peacekeeping and law enforcement goes beyond carrying a badge, a gun and handcuffs. It's also community outreach, and a deep concern with public safety that includes the people you are intercepting for an arrest.

Cops nowadays are protected by their union, as they should be, but they are overly protected which gives them a feeling of invulnerability with the law. He does say the presence of so many video recording devices does complicate the situation, but it can also help them. The problem is we are catching more and more cops being in dereliction of duty and then the act is going unpunished. Police reform is needed.

 

[Anaconda99]

I saw kids being dragged like that at school when they refused to leave the class for disrupting. I don't see the problem there. She seemed to possess enough faculties to walk, but refused to. In that case, as unceremonious as it might be, being dragged away is the only option.

The kick/push with the foot is highly questionable, you could reprimand her for it, but firing her? Just seems excessive to me. I mean, if that's how people want it to be, then by all means, but on that same token we should fire people from other jobs for making mistakes, also. No matter if they've done 5, 10, 15 years of solid work. One mistake, and you're gone. If we set that as a universal standard then it should be acceptable.

I would much rather criticize the fact that one female cop was facing a box-cutter wielding maniac. We have to be realistic here, there should be a male cop accompanying a female cop, to prevent the physical stuff from escalating.

A mistake is spilling a drink not stomping someones head in. Police officers need to be held to a different standard cause they are suppose to serve and protect not stomp. A mistake is something you dont do intentionally.

 

[TheGreatA]

A mistake is spilling a drink not stomping someones head in. Police officers need to be held to a different standard cause they are suppose to serve and protect not stomp. A mistake is something you dont do intentionally.

She hardly stomped her head in, though.

 

[Anaconda99]

She hardly stomped her head in, though.

Shes also 5 times her size probably 300 pounds that girl on the bottom is as heavy as that fat cops arm. She stomped on her you can call it what you like she stomped on her head.