can we now admit what we missed out on as fans? (Khamzat)

[don't ask]

Yes exactly. So he was guilty of the horrible crime of appearing in a photo with someone. You think that justified a 2.5 year ban for the most promising athlete in MMA? Is this a weird side effect of social media where the biggest perceived crime is photos with someone you don't like?

Do you think Trump is morally wrong for not stripping him of the belt now and RE-banning him again? After all, this photo still exists... surely Khamzat isn't done serving time for the crime of appearing in a photograph without US state department approval?

I never thought you were an idiot before. In fact, you're usually a poster I look out for because I like your threads. However, this thread has been fucking idiocy from top to bottom. Talking to me, you're doing your best to pretend Khamzat doesn't accept money / gifts from Khadyrov, doesn't have a personal relationship where he trains Khadyrov's children and didn't immediately take the belt to show Khadyrov as soon as he won it. Talking to other people, you're confidently proclaiming when Khamzat's struggle with Covid was over, even though it's been known to mess people up for years.

Stop being a fucking moron. This thread is beneath you.

EDIT: Khamzat has also been present in a livestream with Khadyrov where the Chechen warlord threatened to murder a minor for criticizing him.

 

[HeadKickerV2]

Ok visa problems and all but why couldn't he fought in Middle East?

 

[Dionysian]

I dont know exactly what it was. I just know it was something. it wasn't "no reason in particular"

This is exactly how we got to where we are. "I don't need to know why. I just know the secret police are pure of heart and if they do something they have a good reason" said everyone in every dystopian police state ever.

Most promising athlete in the sport is banned from competing for nearly 3 years CLEARLY for no reason other than virtue signaling and people in this thread still tripling down on "well clearly if the government banned him he's guilty of something I can't see or understand but I will support endlessly" logic ha.

Now people are getting taken off the street randomly and stuffed into vans and people on Sherdog / in society at large go "well nah I don't know why those people were tossed in the van or where they are disappearing to, but I definitely trust that those van abductors are good folks!!"

We have fallen since the 70s in terms of critical thinking. Back then people resented the government for stealing Muhammad Ali's prime from us. But now...

Thats not just one photo mate

They basically brothers in crime or so the virtue signals.

Buuuuuut as a counter argument against myself you could say a lot of people from Ali have encountered Kaddy and been all buddy-buddy with him. So its not like Kham is the only one guilty of hanging around with him. Its all PR for the wrong people. I dont know how close they truly are in reality of course.

No one does. It is literally guilt via a photograph. It is absurd and next level brainwashing shit.

 

[chardog]

Khamzat had battles of his own, could not make it to all the fights, no it wasnt a nasty injury or women, it was the flu.

 

[Dionysian]

I never thought you were an idiot before. In fact, you're usually a poster I look out for because I like your threads. However, this thread has been fucking idiocy from top to bottom. Talking to me, you're doing your best to pretend Khamzat hasn't accepted money / gifts from Khadyrov and doesn't have a relationship where he trains Khadyrov's children. Talking to other people, you're confidently proclaiming when Khamzat's struggle with Covid was over, even though it's been known to mess people up for years.

Stop being a fucking moron. This thread is beneath you.

COVID clearly messed him up 2020 and 2021. This thread is talking about 2022 to 2025.

If he is guilty of getting paid by a powerful person that isn't pleasant, would you support him being stripped of the belt today? If no, then why was it justified 2022-2025? If yes, would you support applying that criteria to every other champ presently and historically and start stripping half the roster from competing based on which politicians you like and which you don't?

I am merely saying this "ban athletes based on which politicians are their fans" criteria is indefensible bullshit and can never be applied consistently. That's the point of this thread.

Ok visa problems and all but why couldn't he fought in Middle East?

He did. Which is why "he can only compete in the ME" became a meme

 

[don't ask]

COVID clearly messed him up 2020 and 2021. This thread is talking about 2022 to 2025.

Did you just not read my post? I pointed out that Covid has debilitating effects that can linger for years.

If he is guilty of getting paid by a powerful person that isn't pleasant, would you support him being stripped of the belt today? If no, then why was it justified 2022-2025? If yes, would you support applying that criteria to every other champ presently and historically and start stripping half the roster from competing based on which politicians you like and which you don't?

I am merely saying this "ban athletes based on which politicians are their fans" criteria is indefensible bullshit and can never be applied consistently. That's the point of this thread.

He did. Which is why "he can only compete in the ME" became a meme

Read my post, but for real this time. He is not merely "guilty of getting paid by a powerful person who isn't pleasant" and athletes aren't banned "based on which politicians are their fans". Stop pretending Khamzat doesn't have a significant relationship with Khadyrov or that Khadyrov is comparable to any random politician.

 

[RockyLockridge]

This is exactly how we got to where we are. "I don't need to know why. I just know the secret police are pure of heart and if they do something they have a good reason" said everyone in every dystopian police state ever.

Maybe you they dont want to tell you and that's up to khamzat and the UFC maybe they think if they told you, you'd make less threads about him and that's bad for business.

 

[svmr_db]

Lol Chimaev pals around with a warlord in Kadyrov for years but OP frames it like it was a one time picture & gets salty at the implication that the association could justifiably affect his ability get a visa in the US.

 

[Dionysian]

Did you just not read my post? I pointed out that Covid has debilitating effects that can linger for years.

Read my post, but for real this time. He is not merely "guilty of getting paid by a powerful person who isn't pleasant" and athletes aren't banned "based on which politicians are their fans". Stop pretending Khamzat doesn't have a significant relationship with Khadyrov or that Khadyrov is comparable to any random politician.

That's fine... where do you personally draw the line man?

I can't see drawing it anywhere PERSONALLY short of the sportsman doing criminal behavior. As an example...

1. A sportsman being born in the same country as a bad guy
2. A sportsman appearing in the same photo as a bad guy
3. A sportsman getting money from a bad guy
4. A sportsman who fought in the army of a bad guy
5. A sportsman actively fighting in the army of a bad guy
6. Being the bad guy

So there's a spectrum. I think we can both agree Khamzat isn't anything more than #3. Other than number 6 (the fighter is the actual criminal) I don't get why we'd start policing anything from 1-5. Just think if we did and we did it consistently... who would judge who is a "bad guy" and who isn't? Most of us agree Kadyrov isn't the nicest person... what if the authorities decided a president you're NOT against was ALSO bad? Banning all Brazilians based on their president now (or their president years ago) for instance. Can Trump ban fighters who liked Biden? Should a democrat in 2028 ban UFC fighters who push for Trump now?

It is a slippery slope and a terrible idea. You don't have to love Kadyrov to point out it sets a terrible precedent.

 

[jeff7b9]

No one here has offered any rationale for why he should have been banned from competing globally for 2.5 years. Can you? Or just saying it is his fault that the State Department banned him without giving any reason for why that ban was implemented?

Did this happen in the 70s? How many boxing fans said Ali was at fault for not competing? At least that way if you were a die-hard supporter of the Vietnam war you could rationalize it... saying HE made the choice to not go and therefore deserved the US stopping him from competing.

But we don't even have that logic here. Khamzat did nothing other than be born in the wrong place. Which is why I keep asking people in this thread their rationale for WHY he was banned and so far I've gotten nothing.

No one here or anywhere owes you anything.

You made a list of excuses.
Congratulations.

You have gone to great lengths to justify why another man should accept zero responsibility for the outcome of the events in his own life.


You are having a temper tantrum on behalf of another man who doesn't know you exist.
It's fucking weird.

 

[Neck&Neck]

Khamzat is just misunderstood

And

 

[octagonation]

As a massive khamzat Chimaev fan I disagree with this opinion and As a matter of fact Khamzat needed that time off in order to improve significiantly which he did.

Khamzat was young in the sport when he entered in the UFC back in 2020 and he had only started training MMA back in 2017. He could have run into some defeats due to lack of experience not ability example the Burns fight and Honestly it was God´s plan to delay him in order for him to turn into the monster he has become which means things have aligned for him well.

As someone said it was not only the UFC but majority of it was out of the UFC´s control and himself. Example the Covid incidents set him back where 3 bouts were cancelled following his retirement and then him returning to MMA, followed by the Diaz incident and imho that fight should have not even taken place.

He beat Usman and was next in line but he broke his hand during that bout and had to do some surgery and he himself decline to fight on January 2024 against Strickland due to surgery and his managed said okay we will fight the winner and right after that period he got violently ill where his face became like a ballon and note this is before the Whittaker illness and then the Whittaker fight came around where he got ill again leading to fight cancellation and then it got rebooked.

There is also another episode at UFC 300 were he was offered to headline against Leon Edwards for the Welterweight title but he declined that as well citing he can´t make weight in that short period.

Imho all this issues has benefited Khamzat because he has improved alot in these layoffs and now he has reached his final form with expereince and skills it becomes much difficult to beat him now compared to back in 2022, 23 and 24.

He has not lost time but he has gained time imho skillwise, he can now truely run thru the division if he stays very active ala Alex Pereira. He could fight 5-6 times in the next 14-15 months if he wants there is no ranking politics he is the champ.

He has had the necessary growth he needed in these periods and they were very important for him and I think it becomes much more difficult to beat him now then before

 

[don't ask]

So there's a spectrum. I think we can both agree Khamzat isn't anything more than #3.

Why does your spectrum ignore all the other parts of their relationship I point out? Khamzat has a personal relationship with his children -- he trains them and they have accompanied him to fights. He's taken money and gifts from Khadyrov. He was persuaded to live in Chechnya by Khadirov when it looks like his career was over. He was on a livestream where Khadyrov threatened to murder a minor.

Most of us agree Kadyrov isn't the nicest person... what if the authorities decided a president you're NOT against was ALSO bad?

Look at how far you've had to move the discussion. Just acknowledge you don't want someone in Khamzat's position to be impacted by his relationship with a brutal warlord. You don't need to bother with this song and dance.

Banning all Brazilians based on their president now (or their president years ago) for instance.

He's still doing these things. Why are you ignoring that I wrote the first thing he did after winning the belt was take it to Khadyrov?

Can Trump ban fighters who liked Biden? Should a democrat in 2028 ban UFC fighters who push for Trump now?

It is a slippery slope and a terrible idea. You don't have to love Kadyrov to point out it sets a terrible precedent.

Don't even pretend you're interested in reason and logic when you're ignoring all the inconvenient details I'm pointing out.

 

[Koala]

A Chimaev vs Adesanya fight for the belt could have been crazy
A Khamzat vs Shavkat title shot eliminator at WW could have been great
We've clearly missed something

 

[Pequeño Corey]

I can’t imagine that many fighters would snub their home country’s leader, however fucked their values are. The whole training and letting the guy get the better of him is pretty embarrassing though. It’s obviously so the leader can bolster his strong man image. I can’t imagine being a part of that. Shameful, really.

I personally soured on the terrorist rat lip after he gave the post fight speech proclaiming that he wants to pick up a rifle in defense of Palestine. It’s ok if you want to admonish Israel’s collateral damage heavy strategy, but stop acting like you’re about real life and death miltary conflict. Dude is an athlete, not a soldier.

You say and do shit like this, then you reap what you sew. No one told him to partake in a bromance with the warlord (and he continues to shout out his warlord gym) and take an openly pro-hamas stance in his post fight. He’s very good, but his values are fucked imo. Really don’t care if he competes or not. I don’t identify with him at all.

Also, didn’t his health issues contribute to the inactivity?

 

[Thy]

pretty sure i didn't miss anything. If i did i'll watch it later. eventually.

 

[svmr_db]

A Chimaev vs Adesanya fight for the belt could have been crazy
A Khamzat vs Shavkat title shot eliminator at WW could have been great
We've clearly missed something

They would've been solid fights but the timeline never made sense to make those fights. Chimaev wasn't in title contention @ MW while Adesanya was champion & he was no longer a WW when Shavkat was entering title contention.

 

[ocfightfan]

I really hope that Craig Jones puts a stop to this nonsense.

 

[Bork Neslar]

Who cares.

 

[Azure]

Khamzat wasted Khamzat's career.

I get hating the UFC but this is next level