Can we all agree that Ben Askren

[Ares Black]

You really spent your entire Sunday on an internet forum, posting the same post over and over.. looking dumber and dumber each time.

 

[Ares Black]

Hate to say I told you so. But I did.

And I've sure you heard enough of it since last night but I called it.

No offense intended
Just sayin

All good, Sherbro. I am not easily offended. Frankly, I thought Askren was actually going to try to win. Live and learn.

 

[Cariñito]

My friend, I get it that there is more to striking than just boxing. What I am against is the attitude of many so called MMA experts telling me MMA striking is different and boxing doesn't apply there. It's just a camouflage for the incompetence. You have so called world champions that can't throw a proper jab. They simply learn to push with the punches from inadequate people in the early stages of their career and what baffles me more even elite fighters don't switch anything or add to their game. Same coaches, old bad habits.

Theres a weird chip on MMA people's shoulders about boxing.
Its fear.....I smell it and I like it.

 

[cheesus]

Can we all stop calling Askren the worst MMA striker ever. Because he is not. We have to admit, the level of boxing in MMA is shitty and I mean street fighting level shitty.

I'd say he's a candidate, he's at least top 10. His striking was pretty effective for his style though, he'd awkwardly lunge forward throw these short shots with nothing on them to distract his opponent enough to close distance to engauge his grappling. His inability to develop as a stiker isn't ulimately what cost him his losses in MMA, didn't have much of a game plan against Maia & against Masvidal was just too predictable.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Theres a weird chip on MMA people's shoulders about boxing.
Its fear.....I smell it and I like it.

Some of these MMA fans (not all) do indeed suffer from what can only be accurately described as some kind of inferiority complex when it comes to boxing. Like the little brother, or stepbrother, that always feels the need to step to the big brother to prove himself as the alpha. It's sad and the bad blood has only been getting worse recently.

Prior to Paul-Askren we saw Marc Castro absolutely dominate, embarrass and stop John Moraga in the boxing ring. He dropped him with a jab just 7 seconds into the first round. Yet, not a single boxing reg here cared. Just thought I'd point that out because if it were the other way around you better believe these special needs MMA fanboys would be having a fucking field day with it.

 

[John Mabrey]

Theres a weird chip on MMA people's shoulders about boxing.
Its fear.....I smell it and I like it.

 

[Fedor>Cain]

The fact that you guys had the confidence to call anything as a sure thing regarding this circus is amazing. I’ve been following boxing for 30 years and mma almost as long and I had absolutely no idea what was going to happen in this circus fight. Could Paul KO Askren? Sure, my Yorkshire terrier can KO Askren. Could askren ko Paul? Sure, Paul is a YouTuber with no real experience.

could they go to a boring draw sucking wind for the whole fight? Sure thing.

anything could have happened in this, it’s the nature and the allure of such bullshit promotions, so just sit back and enjoy de la Hoya being coked out of his brain because that was definitely the highlight of this event

Why do you guys keep saying Paul has no experience when the guy has been training with Shane mosley's camp for 3 years now lol. Jake Paul quite clearly has had more boxing experience in 3 years of training than Askren has had in his entire life. That's why many of us kept saying Askren had no chance. The guy got outstruck by K1 Maia of all people

 

[Fedor>Cain]

I don't think i've heard 1 person say Boxing doesn't apply to MMA lol.. Obviously having elite boxing skills gives any fighter a way larger chance of winning, but it's just one aspect of many, the nature of "Mixed" in Mixed Martial Arts means that one has to be a jack of all trades to some degree, sure the boxing level could be improved on the whole, but so could every other attribute too, plenty fighters with Pro Boxing records who would rather focus on kicking instead though.
Fact is you're always going to see better Boxers in Boxing, better Wrestlers in Wrestling and better Kickboxers in Kickboxing, but you're not going to find guys who can use all 3 as well as MMA dudes in any of those more restricted sports.

Boxers in MMA have sucked just as bad as MMA fighters in Boxing, I mean arguably Frank Mir last night did more in Boxing than any Boxer has ever in MMA lol. It works both ways.

Holly Holm was a world champion in boxing then crossed to mma. Yea it's the women's division, but whatever. Can't say that Frank Mir did better in boxing than she did in mma

Ray Mercer also put Tim sylvia into a living death lol. Hard to say that Mir did better than Ray Mercer KOing a former world champion who was what like 2 years removed from the belt?

 

[welcometohavoc]

Lol. Because that fight was totally legitimate.

I foolishly assumed Askren would take it semi-serious instead of showing up for the paycheck.

The rallying cry of the delusional is to blame every "sure thing" that didn't go their way on a fix

 

[DaveDave]

Some of these MMA fans (not all) do indeed suffer from what can only be accurately described as some kind of inferiority complex when it comes to boxing. Like the little brother, or stepbrother, that always feels the need to step to the big brother to prove himself as the alpha. It's sad and the bad blood has only been getting worse recently.

Prior to Paul-Askren we saw Marc Castro absolutely dominate, embarrass and stop John Moraga in the boxing ring. He dropped him with a jab just 7 seconds into the first round. Yet, not a single boxing reg here cared. Just thought I'd point that out because if it were the other way around you better believe these special needs MMA fanboys would be having a fucking field day with it.

Q: Who the fuck is John Moraga?

That aside, though, I think you're spot on & I find it's so fucking weird man. I am old & have zero interest in UFC. I try not to opine about it, 'cos I know sweet FA & watching it is boring to me. But a mate who's really into it got talking online with me & another mate. Now, I ain't Bert fuckin' Sugar but I had a couple ammy fights, a handful semi-pro kickboxing fights; my mate is assistant trainer at a fucking pro boxing gym, with a couple guys at Area level.

& this other dude's showing us fucking clips of just the worst punching technique—& I don't mean just aesthetically, I mean, just fucking awful—of some top UFC guy & really genuinely asking us what the fuck we thought & could he fight in boxing etc. etc.. We gently said that the dude certainly seemed strong (I mean, he's like 18 stone of solid roids, FFS) but his technique might need to be tightened up before he thought about fighting a boxer.

Guy was seriously like insulted by it. He couldn't see that maybe there's a reason boxers punch like they do, that there's been a 100 years+ of working out how to best transfer force from the floor through your hand while avoiding getting splattered by anything coming back.

It was very awkward (this other dude's super-nice, & we didn't wanna like laugh at him to his face); the moment he logged off me & my mate laughed about it for fucking ages.

I can only presume (& this is wild spit-balling, so take it with a shovel of salt, like), most people I know into watching boxing either competed or sparred or know some tiny bit about it. But like 90% of UFC fans I bump into think in this fucking WWE fucking register, where it's just obvious to them where there's this crossover where you can jump between sports & they just have this like blind spot where they won't even learn why their ideas are wrong.

Dunno. Like you said, inferiority complex. S'weird, man.

 

[Jose Beehive]

Holly Holm was a world champion in boxing then crossed to mma. Yea it's the women's division, but whatever. Can't say that Frank Mir did better in boxing than she did in mma

Ray Mercer also put Tim sylvia into a living death lol. Hard to say that Mir did better than Ray Mercer KOing a former world champion who was what like 2 years removed from the belt?

That's fair points, there are others as well, like Adesanya has 5 Pro wins in Boxing too... But i'd argue most of them on 1 side of the coin weren't really cared about or watched very much, Mir was likely watched by more people last night than Holly's entire boxing career, and Mercers MMA fight.. You can't say someone has done something for a sport when fuck all people watched it and barely anyone knows it even happened(in contrast), maybe i'm wrong.

 

[Cariñito]

That's fair points, there are others as well, like Adesanya has 5 Pro wins in Boxing too... But i'd argue most of them on 1 side of the coin weren't really cared about or watched very much, Mir was likely watched by more people last night than Holly's entire boxing career, and Mercers MMA fight.. You can't say someone has done something for a sport when fuck all people watched it and barely anyone knows it even happened(in contrast), maybe i'm wrong.

Not comparable.
Ray Mercer was 48 years old with no training, walked right over landed a right hand and walked out. On a former 2x UFC HW Champ.
Holly Holm became UFC Champ after leaving boxing.

Compared to Israel's last boxing match being against another kickboxer in Zane Hopman. Shows what you know

 

[Jose Beehive]

Not comparable.
Ray Mercer was 48 years old with no training, walked right over landed a right hand and walked out. On a former 2x UFC HW Champ.
Holly Holm became UFC Champ after leaving boxing.

Compared to Israel's last boxing match being against another kickboxer in Zane Hopman. Shows what you know

Well you didn't teach me anything I didn't already know so ... I feel alright

My assumption is just that more people probably witnessed Mir fight than all of those other boxing matches put together.

If Fedor outboxed Mike Tyson in front of 2 people and it's not on film, it doesn't do anything for MMA or Boxing is basically my point..

Mir is also a former UFC Champ fyi.

 

[Cariñito]

Well you didn't teach me anything I didn't already know so ... I feel alright

My assumption is just that more people probably witnessed Mir fight than all of those other boxing matches put together.

If Fedor outboxed Mike Tyson in front of 2 people and it's not on film, it doesn't do anything for MMA or Boxing is basically my point..

He didnt win a round. Cunningham held back and took him 6. Their families met and talked and hung out before the fights and got to know each other.
This was two guys working and making a good paycheck. That's all that was.

 

[Jose Beehive]

He didnt win a round. Cunningham held back and took him 6. Their families met and talked and hung out before the fights and got to know each other.
This was two guys working and making a good paycheck. That's all that was.

Never said he did win a round... Or that it was anything more than that... But let's not pretend that everyone watching Jake vs Askren knows about Mercer and Holly Holm's boxing records.

claims of 1.5 million people paying to watch that PPV make Mir's achievement more sizeable to the casuals imo, despite it being little more than an OAP exhibition match.

 

[CallMeCasual]

Lol. Jake Paul hasn't beaten anyone. He is an amateur.

Askren is a professional combat athlete. Robbie Lawler couldn't knock him out, but Jake Paul will? Ok.

Definitely not. He could very well lose, I just really doubt he will get knocked out.

Or, I understand how boxing works.

Askren is going to clinch the shit out of Paul and try to wear him out.

Do people think Askren is going to get into a firefight? This fight is going to be ugly, and no one is getting knocked out.

Will bump this thread when I am right.

It's hilarious that people think Paul will definitely knock out Askren. It's theoretically possible, but very, very unlikely.

True, but Askren won't have to worry about kicks or knees, just punches from an amateur.

You are a clown and you don't know shit about boxing.

 

[Cariñito]

Never said he did win a round... Or that it was anything more than that... But let's not pretend that everyone watching Jake vs Askren knows about Mercer and Holly Holm's boxing records.

claims of 1.5 million people paying to watch that PPV make Mir's achievement more sizeable to the casuals imo, despite it being little more than an OAP exhibition match.

Casuals dont know who Mercer, Toney, Holm, or Mir is.
People I know who knew who Mir was back in the day, didnt even remember the Lesnar fights or who he was.
This was MMA fans and Jake Paul fans.
There was no learning experience for casuals except for MMA guy got beat up by novice boxer.

 

[Ares Black]

You are a clown and you don't know shit about boxing.

Oh, we are pretending that this was real?
Ok.

 

[CallMeCasual]

Oh, we are pretending that this was real?
Ok.

 

[Jose Beehive]

Casuals dont know who Mercer, Toney, Holm, or Mir is.
People I know who knew who Mir was back in the day, didnt even remember the Lesnar fights or who he was.
This was MMA fans and Jake Paul fans.
There was no learning experience for casuals except for MMA guy got beat up by novice boxer.

They know Mir NOW though is what I'm saying because millions just watched him survive and compete with a credible boxer.. They saw 1 ex UFC champ fight an ex Pro-Boxer and the Ex UFC champ I imagine did better than anyone expected.

Where as casuals of MMA and Boxing don't know shit about Holly Holm boxing, during or since.

See OP in this thread to see some more context for Mir's achievement
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/mir-did-well-considering.4177406/