Can we all agree that Ben Askren

[Ares Black]

If you liked that fight, there is something called Pro Wrestling which you are going to LOVE.

 

[Ares Black]

Actual footage of @CallMeCasual

 

[Cariñito]

They know Mir NOW though is what I'm saying because millions just watched him survive and compete with a credible boxer.. They saw 1 ex UFC champ fight an ex Pro-Boxer and the Ex UFC champ I imagine did better than anyone expected.

Where as casuals of MMA and Boxing don't know shit about Holly Holm boxing, during or since.

No they didnt. They saw a fat thick man walk out with a battered face while his opponent laughed and patted him on the head during the fight.
No casual walked away and said "I gotta see that Frank guy again"

And none of them walked out with any respect for the UFC. And if they somehow mustered up some weird respect for Frank and the UFC because of his performance. They lost all of it when Ben caught that right hand like a frisbee and went down to the mat.

 

[Jose Beehive]

No they didnt. They saw a fat thick man walk out with a battered face while his opponent laughed and patted him on the head during the fight.
No casual walked away and said "I gotta see that Frank guy again"

And none of them walked out with any respect for the UFC. And if they somehow muster up some weird respect for Frank because of his performance. They lost all of it when Ben caught that right hand like a frisbee and went down to the mat.

Seeing a fat thick man is better than not seeing Holly Holm and co, the dude was like 58-56 on one judges card.. Nobody cared as much about the higher quality cross overs, based on the PPV buys alone... Conor did more for MMA in Boxing than Mercer did for Boxing in MMA just by default of viewing, more people will come out with a positive opinion regardless of whether that opinion is right or not..

I think you are underestimating the millions

AND MILLIONS of different opinions.. You can't talk for everyone that saw it.. And plenty did.

 

[Cariñito]

Seeing a fat thick man is better than not seeing Holly Holm and co, the dude was like 58-56 on one judges card.. Nobody cared as much about the higher quality cross overs, based on the PPV buys alone... Conor did more for MMA in Boxing than Mercer did for Boxing in MMA just by default of viewing, more people will come out with a positive opinion regardless of whether that opinion is right or not..

I think you are underestimating the millions

AND MILLIONS of different opinions.. You can't talk for everyone that saw it.. And plenty did.

Millions saw Ben get his ass kicked by a Youtuber.
@revoltub nephew left wrestling and went back into boxing because of this.
"But millions saw Frank"
Millions of ppl asked why is that fat man on my screen and why is Oscar talking like that.

 

[Jose Beehive]

Millions saw Ben get his ass kicked by a Youtuber.
@revoltub nephew left wrestling and went back into boxing because of this.
"But millions saw Frank"
Millions of ppl asked why is that fat man on my screen and why is Oscar talking like that.

They did, the circumstances were different.. One fight doesn't tarnish another fight imo.

Does James Toney's loss reflect at all on Jake Pauls win against Askren? No of course not.
Does Art Jimmerson's tarnish Holly Holms wins in both Boxing and MMA? nah of course not.

Laughable to me you think you can mind read millions of casuals opinions when you clearly are not one.
Using one Sherbro anecdote to try and push back on millions of paying people is also a joke tbh.

 

[Cariñito]

They did, the circumstances were different.. One fight doesn't tarnish another fight imo.

Laughable to me you think you can mind read millions of casuals opinions when you clearly are not one.

Casuals are casuals.
They dont put much stock into a fight that's 2 fights before the main event with two older guys they dont know fighting, after a 2 hour concert.
If you think that struck a chord with them, but Ben getting absolutely embarrassed didnt, youre an idiot.
Millions of casuals agree with me.

 

[Gigaton Punch]

Can we all stop calling Askren the worst MMA striker ever. Because he is not. We have to admit, the level of boxing in MMA is shitty and I mean street fighting level shitty.

He's the worst striker ever to make it to the level of success he had.
He was Bellator Champion and was technically ranked top 5 in UFC (kind of a fraudulent ranking imo, that stoppage against Lawler was bs, he was fully conscious)
I'd say Jake Shields was comparable but Shields actually won some fights with striking, even if his punches looked like they had all the weight of fly landing on someone's face

 

[Jose Beehive]

Casuals are casuals.
They dont put much stock into a fight that's 2 fights before the main event with two older guys they dont know fighting, after a 2 hour concert.
If you think that struck a chord with them, but Ben getting absolutely embarrassed didnt, youre an idiot.
Millions of casuals agree with me.

Ben Askren's fight really doesn't change what happened in the Mir fight though imo, I think that's a non sequitur to my point really, Ben shitting the bed doesn't change anything about the Mir fight, though maybe for some like yourself, I'd argue that's completely illogical.

If you were basing your judgement on MMA vs Boxing on retired Mir and retired Askren then you have to be a bit deluded imo, regardless of opposition it's not a typical setup for a pro boxing match, and thus shouldn't really reflect anything much from a 'what did we learn about both sports' perspective.. We learnt that retired fighters are wack in both sports and thats about it, and really we already knew that.

... I don't particularly think any chords were struck, just a bit more so than nearly any other cross over fight in history, because of numbers of viewers.. Same with Conor's shit show, he still garnered way more "He did better than expected" than anyone cared about Holly Holm's boxing record or Mercers win, or Toney's loss, or Art Jimmerson's loss etc regardless of if that opinion is worth anything.

 

[Cariñito]

Ben Askren's fight really doesn't change what happened in the Mir fight though imo, I think that's a non sequitur to my point really, Ben shitting the bed doesn't change anything about the Mir fight, though maybe for some like yourself, I'd argue that's completely illogical.

... I don't particularly think any chords were struck, just a bit more so than nearly any other cross over fight in history, because of numbers of viewers.. Same with Conor's shit show, he still garnered way more "He did better than expected" than anyone cared about Holly Holm's boxing record or Mercers win, or Toney's loss, or Art Jimmerson's loss etc regardless of if that opinion is worth anything.

No one gives a fuck about Mir. They came to see Jake vs Ben and they walked away going "I thought they said UFC guys were real fighters?"

And that's why you're in here panicking and that's why the heavies was falling apart.
It happened. We all knew it was gonna happen. We told you it was gonna happen. And here we are with MMA dead forever.

 

[Jose Beehive]

No one gives a fuck about Mir. They came to see Jake vs Ben and they walked away going "I thought they said UFC guys were real fighters?"

And that's why you're in here panicking and that's why the heavies was falling apart.
It happened. We all knew it was gonna happen. We told you it was gonna happen. And here we are with MMA dead forever.

Haha i'm not panicking, you thinking that shows how deluded you are again though.. You seem to think you are a mind reader and have a grasp on what everyone is doing and thinking... I have no idea what i've said that suggests i'm panicking though lol.

You told me nothing, I predicted Jake would win in the 1st round and I predicted Mir would grind out a decision loss, you sound like you have something stuck up your butt hole, calm down kiddo.

"MMA is dead forever" is casual troll shit tbf, I overestimated your intelligence as a fight fan.

No more time wasting from me.. You already can mind read my opinions anyway.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Q: Who the fuck is John Moraga?

That aside, though, I think you're spot on & I find it's so fucking weird man. I am old & have zero interest in UFC. I try not to opine about it, 'cos I know sweet FA & watching it is boring to me. But a mate who's really into it got talking online with me & another mate. Now, I ain't Bert fuckin' Sugar but I had a couple ammy fights, a handful semi-pro kickboxing fights; my mate is assistant trainer at a fucking pro boxing gym, with a couple guys at Area level.

& this other dude's showing us fucking clips of just the worst punching technique—& I don't mean just aesthetically, I mean, just fucking awful—of some top UFC guy & really genuinely asking us what the fuck we thought & could he fight in boxing etc. etc.. We gently said that the dude certainly seemed strong (I mean, he's like 18 stone of solid roids, FFS) but his technique might need to be tightened up before he thought about fighting a boxer.

Guy was seriously like insulted by it. He couldn't see that maybe there's a reason boxers punch like they do, that there's been a 100 years+ of working out how to best transfer force from the floor through your hand while avoiding getting splattered by anything coming back.

It was very awkward (this other dude's super-nice, & we didn't wanna like laugh at him to his face); the moment he logged off me & my mate laughed about it for fucking ages.

I can only presume (& this is wild spit-balling, so take it with a shovel of salt, like), most people I know into watching boxing either competed or sparred or know some tiny bit about it. But like 90% of UFC fans I bump into think in this fucking WWE fucking register, where it's just obvious to them where there's this crossover where you can jump between sports & they just have this like blind spot where they won't even learn why their ideas are wrong.

Dunno. Like you said, inferiority complex. S'weird, man.

Good stuff. Moraga is an MMA fighter, UFC veteran, and former UFC world title challenger. Thanks for sharing that story though lol. I have buddies like that too who are real nice but they're very easily impressed it seems.

 

[revoltub]

Millions saw Ben get his ass kicked by a Youtuber.
@revoltub nephew left wrestling and went back into boxing because of this.
"But millions saw Frank"
Millions of ppl asked why is that fat man on my screen and why is Oscar talking like that.

Again, my cousin and it was taekwondo!

 

[DaveDave]

Good stuff. Moraga is an MMA fighter, UFC veteran, and former UFC world title challenger. Thanks for sharing that story though lol. I have buddies like that too who are real nice but they're very easily impressed it seems.

Cheers dude.

I actually went & looked up that Moraga fight just now—guy was outclassed LOL (much like that UFC stan in this thread who somehow thinks Frank Mir getting beaten up by shot-to-shit Steve "I absorbed so many headshots I now believe the world is flat" Cunningham is more impressive than Holly Holm winning a boxing world title & then going over & flat-lining the like alleged #1 all-star female UFC fighter).

 

[Badr Hari]

He's the worst striker ever to make it to the level of success he had.
He was Bellator Champion and was technically ranked top 5 in UFC (kind of a fraudulent ranking imo, that stoppage against Lawler was bs, he was fully conscious)
I'd say Jake Shields was comparable but Shields actually won some fights with striking, even if his punches looked like they had all the weight of fly landing on someone's face

I don't think people who said "Askren is the worst MMA striker ever" only meant it compared to the CHAMPIONS/ELITE. Even if that's the case, the fact that a guy of that caliber manages to have such massive success throughout his career should tell you something about the level of the game. I was one of those who bought the "deep talent pool" narrative in the past few years and predicted Askren to win but I had obviously deceived myself. We have a long way to go. When you think about it, as far as technique goes Brock Lesnar isn't a more sophisticated striker than Askren. He has had more success in the stand up only because of his sheer strength and durability.

 

[BoxingMMA]

Why do you guys keep saying Paul has no experience when the guy has been training with Shane mosley's camp for 3 years now lol. Jake Paul quite clearly has had more boxing experience in 3 years of training than Askren has had in his entire life. That's why many of us kept saying Askren had no chance. The guy got outstruck by K1 Maia of all people

I meant actual prize fighting experience of course. Training wise the guy clearly has done his homework. But come on, a shit circus like this, anything can happen. I expected Ben to go for a takedown just to fuck with everyone.