Can someone tell me the difference between Kenpo/Shotokan/Kyokushin?

[ShotokanBB'n'MB]

This is traditional Shotokan footwork, performed by a recognized master to absolute perfection. The instruction is in Japanese, but you will get the idea. This Oi zuki is a work of art. I spent probably hundreds of hours trying to develop comparable technique. Does this look anything like what Lyoto is using?

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8844BzvEyMs&NR=1

are you one of those guys who think your supposed to use the exact moves from kata in a fight?

 

[foofie]

Whats wrong with this mvisit guy ?

NinjaKilla187 did not mean , this with his opinion , you are just overusing it . Somethings are effective , some are not . Some are effective for the majority , some arent effective for the majority. My opinion - lyoto machida is one from lots . And tbh I think he trained kickboxing/ muay thai / boxing , he would be even more sufficient .

 

[NinjaKilla187]

are you one of those guys who think your supposed to use the exact moves from kata in a fight?

No, I'm one of those guys that think that training techniques, including Kata, should be usable in combat. And that Ancient Okinawan Folk Dances should be known as Ancient Okinawan Folk Dances instead of figting techniques.

Whats your opinion on Kata? What is it for and why is it practiced?

 

[DoomsdayFAN**]

Well, thanks Ninja and everyone else. I feel I have a bit better understanding now.

But I still have two more questions:

#1: What is it about pure karate that makes it not effective?

#2: Which is the "best" Karate between Kenpo/Shotokan/Kyokushin?

I dont get it... I've asked a few people who practice martial arts about Karate, and they said basically "Karate > Kickboxing & Muay Thai"


(I dont mean to sound like a broken record, I just have a hard time understanding about Karate. All my life I've heard Kenpo was the best. Then I just recently found out about Shotokan and Kyokushin. So Im pretty confused)

 

[bellator]

Well, thanks Ninja and everyone else. I feel I have a bit better understanding now.

But I still have two more questions:

#1: What is it about pure karate that makes it not effective?

#2: Which is the "best" Karate between Kenpo/Shotokan/Kyokushin?

I dont get it... I've asked a few people who practice martial arts about Karate, and they said basically "Karate > Kickboxing & Muay Thai"


(I dont mean to sound like a broken record, I just have a hard time understanding about Karate. All my life I've heard Kenpo was the best. Then I just recently found out about Shotokan and Kyokushin. So Im pretty confused)

#1-What makes pure karate not effective is the fact that you spend hours and hours of training doing reps of technical stuff that you never use in kumite.

#2- This question makes no sense. No style is better than another.

 

[Deleted member 87037]

#1-What makes pure karate not effective is the fact that you spend hours and hours of training doing reps of technical stuff that you never use in kumite.

#2- This question makes no sense. No style is better than another.

Disagree.

1) This differs from dojo to dojo. My dojo does 10min of Kata per 60min class. Sometimes less. We do bags/sparring/shadow boxing with Karate technique/conditioning.

2) Had you read prior posts of the thread, you'd realize his question does make sense and is why this topic is 11 pages long. Styles do make a difference - coming down fully to the practitioner is BS IMO. Example: Dim Mak (Death Touch) vs. Muay Thai..or Karate or pretty much anything for that matter. Muay Thai/Karate is definitevely better stylistically.

Kyokushin is definitely IMO the best when compared to Shotokan/Kenpo. Though, the quality of the dojo is really most important in this instance. Scout out each. Go to Kyokushin4Life forums and ask about the Kyokushin dojo you have access to; chances are someone goes there/has trained there/has heard from fellow Karateka regarding the dojo and can inform you whether or not the teaching is up to par.

As for Karateka saying Karate is better than Muay Thai - keep in mind - YOU'RE ASKING KARATEKA I train in Karate and believe Muay Thai is better as a ring sport/general fighting. Though, I further believe Karate is better for self defense if taught in a quality dojo. I did Muay Thai 3 months prior to Karate - I didn't like it (stylistically) and preferred the variety of kicks found in Karate. I'm not talking about high-risk arial kicks and things like that. I'm talking about side kick/spinning back kick, etc. Also, I rather keep my whits and not get consistently hit in the head unless necessary, thank you!

 

[mvisit1]

Whats wrong with this mvisit guy ?

NinjaKilla187 did not mean , this with his opinion , you are just overusing it . Somethings are effective , some are not . Some are effective for the majority , some arent effective for the majority. My opinion - lyoto machida is one from lots . And tbh I think he trained kickboxing/ muay thai / boxing , he would be even more sufficient .

Sounds like you only read my first comment or the first page of the thread. You come in here all late, having not read the whole thread, and you have the audacity to call me out? What's wrong with YOU?

 

[bellator]

Disagree.

1) This differs from dojo to dojo. My dojo does 10min of Kata per 60min class. Sometimes less. We do bags/sparring/shadow boxing with Karate technique/conditioning.

The question was "why isn't PURE karate effective?" Training bags, and shadow boxing isn't pure karate.

 

[Deleted member 87037]

"Pure" is relative.

 

[CanadianMMAFann]

OMFG, you're a genius! You should write a book so that all can be on your plane of enlightenment. We are not worthy.

Is this an attempt to be funny? Because if it is you have a lame sense of humor... ninjakilla has some good points and hasnt rly offended anyone or took away from any martial arts he is just statiing the obvious.

 

[CanadianMMAFann]

What is this "bash" you speak of? Dude asked an honest question and I gave an honest answer. Why the near cultish devotion to techniques that don't work?

Traditional Karate is great for a fun hobby and a little costumed role playing at being an ancient Samurai or some such. If you are under the impression that Age Uke and Gedan Barai can actually be used against a trained opponent, please take your video camera down to your local MT or Kickboxing gym and videotape yourself using these techniques to defend yourself.

Post the video here.

Thanks,

Ninja

lol you are probably the funniest person on sherdog... but its true id love to see a karate guy fight a MT guy it would be priceless

 

[RJ Powell**]

yeah seriously, the internet is serious bidness....

you might as well pwn urself mvisit if you cant handle other people's opinions.

 

[CanadianMMAFann]

It depends on who you're up against...a well timed/placed back spin kick to the face can get a KO if the other guy has never been up against a TKD guy. It was one of my favorite counters in tourney sparring and it works well against TKD guys, imagine how well it would work against a grappler with crappy standup or someone coming in on you lazy that's never seen it before

YouTube - Taekwondo Knockouts 2

I can honestly say i dont think those acrobatics would work against a trained kick boxer or MT guy. I have dont tkd in the past and it has helped with ym kicks but in that video not one guy had his hands up. When u have ur hands down at your waist then u are asking to get knocked out, it kind of helped ninjakilla's point... TMA's are not conveniant in a fight.

 

[RJ Powell**]

i know TMAs refer to oriental "Pajama" arts, but seriously, can you really get more TMA than Muay Thai or Boxing or Wrestling?

Those have been around for ages, if anything i would consider those TMA more than anything.

Kyokushin wouldn't be considered a TMA if you looked at it logically.

 

[mvisit1]

Is this an attempt to be funny? Because if it is you have a lame sense of humor... ninjakilla has some good points and hasnt rly offended anyone or took away from any martial arts he is just statiing the obvious.

Who the hell are you? Where did you come from? No one cares what you have to say.

 

[Tim Chan]

i know TMAs refer to oriental "Pajama" arts, but seriously, can you really get more TMA than Muay Thai or Boxing or Wrestling?

Those have been around for ages, if anything i would consider those TMA more than anything.

Kyokushin wouldn't be considered a TMA if you looked at it logically.

I guess it's by whether they have forms, kata, customs, etc.

it's true that those are older than japanese arts in general. maybe not the modern mt or queensberry rules, however far they date back.

mt has the uniform(head band and thai shorts), pre fight dance(cant remember what it's called), fight music, etc which is pretty much a something you can consider a kata. dont know how you can not call it a tma.

cma's been around as long if not longer than most of those. muslims in china were practicing some styles before shaolin existed with little info that can be traced.

there are sketches of wrestling moves in cave men caves, with the same moves they use today, so who knows how old wrestling is. but i guess you can call wrestling/boxing a non tma since it's totally a sport, with no bowing or anything.

 

[Tim Chan]

I can honestly say i dont think those acrobatics would work against a trained kick boxer or MT guy. I have dont tkd in the past and it has helped with ym kicks but in that video not one guy had his hands up. When u have ur hands down at your waist then u are asking to get knocked out, it kind of helped ninjakilla's point... TMA's are not conveniant in a fight.

actually flashy things tend to work easier on kickboxers and mt guys in my experience. tkd's somewhat used to countering most of them, but not some things like a spinning hammerfist, or setting up flashy kicks with pushing(they dont allow pushing in tkd). kickboxers sometimes just freeze or continually move backwards when you try a spinning kick on them and are easy to hit or continuously chase around.

 

[RJ Powell**]

^^^ lol that is why i am glad for my TKD background, everytime someone tries a spinning hook kick or any form of crescent or jump kick, i just take the liberty of jamming my foot into their hip mid-air, or just full on tackling/smothering them until they fall, repeatedly. If i can time it right i come in with a hard sweep.

You are right though, alot of kickboxers have not seen those types of kicks before and just move backwards when they see their opponent doing something funky.

It's more novelty than anything though. Doesn't stop fights very often etc. Most kickboxers successfully avoid them even if they never seen it before, its just interesting for mixing things up a bit.

 

[DoomsdayFAN**]

What is a TMA?

You know, a while back I took Kenpo Karate for about a month and then quit because I couldnt afford the high price. It seemed pretty ligit. An instructor at the class worked at my work, so I got some info from him. He said it would take a minimum of 8 years to get a black belt.

Anyway... The instructor of the school told us all that he favored Kenpo because it was a very effect Art. He said it was better than MT and Kickboxing for self defense. I guess he was trained directly under Ed Parker.

So why all the dislike for Karate? From the little that I saw and went through, ANY of those Karate guy could kick my ass in a heartbeat. So why is it so ineffective?

 

[DoomsdayFAN**]

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