Can someone tell me the difference between Kenpo/Shotokan/Kyokushin?

[mvisit1]

TMA stands for traditional martial arts.

 

[ryouboard]

lol you are probably the funniest person on sherdog... but its true id love to see a karate guy fight a MT guy it would be priceless

Let me just say that I am of the opinion that no one art is better than any other. And I believe everyone should train in what they like.

As for the standards of "effectiveness," a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that what's effective is what works in MMA. Some people will say that what works is whatever has been proven in a ring; others say what counts is what works on the street.

It seems a lot of MT guys obviously point to a MT ring for combat effectiveness. And rightly so. MT has been geared for the ring. Rules have been set up and people have been training to fight in the ring for many generations now. So it's obvious that when it comes to MT rules, MT fighters do the best.

With that being said, allow me to link you to a few videos on youtube.

YouTube - Kyokushin vs Muay Thai in 1964

YouTube - Original Kyokushin vs. Muay Thai

And a couple kids fighting...

YouTube - ????vs????Kyokushin vs Muay Thai 2007


Now, let me say this: for every "pro-karate" vid you can find a "pro-MT" vid, and for every "pro-MT" vid, you can find a "pro-TKD" vid, and so on and so forth. These videos don't show one art's superiority over another. I'm just sharing these with you because you seem to think that for some reason, karate has absolutely no chance against MT under MT rules. Perhaps you will learn something about martial arts and about how you're viewing things from a certain bias that may be hindering you from seeing the good in these karate styles as well.

There are many more videos up on youtube. And I hope they are a "priceless" (as you put it) experience for you.

 

[ShotokanBB'n'MB]

No, I'm one of those guys that think that training techniques, including Kata, should be usable in combat. And that Ancient Okinawan Folk Dances should be known as Ancient Okinawan Folk Dances instead of figting techniques.

Whats your opinion on Kata? What is it for and why is it practiced?

I think of it more as something to be endured. I cant say that they have no use because of my sempei. He competed almost completely in kata for a really long time and then transitioned to kumite and was successful. I will say that I agree with the outdated but there are pieces and bits here and there that can expand the types and variety of moves you are capable of. I also cant deny that they do well for improving the physical fitness of the karate students. Many people who take up karate arent capable of prolonged physical activity. This I think is because karate atracts a lot of the older crowd and the really young crowd. It doesnt really attract athletes right off the bat.

all that aside I think it helps people to be able to focus and maintain the proper attitude. Being able to turn that attitude on and off is something that has happened to me personally. -Shrugs- Truth be told though, I dont give a crap about whether I do well in comp or not with kata

 

[ShotokanBB'n'MB]

Disagree.

1) This differs from dojo to dojo. My dojo does 10min of Kata per 60min class. Sometimes less. We do bags/sparring/shadow boxing with Karate technique/conditioning.

2) Had you read prior posts of the thread, you'd realize his question does make sense and is why this topic is 11 pages long. Styles do make a difference - coming down fully to the practitioner is BS IMO. Example: Dim Mak (Death Touch) vs. Muay Thai..or Karate or pretty much anything for that matter. Muay Thai/Karate is definitevely better stylistically.

Kyokushin is definitely IMO the best when compared to Shotokan/Kenpo. Though, the quality of the dojo is really most important in this instance. Scout out each. Go to Kyokushin4Life forums and ask about the Kyokushin dojo you have access to; chances are someone goes there/has trained there/has heard from fellow Karateka regarding the dojo and can inform you whether or not the teaching is up to par.

As for Karateka saying Karate is better than Muay Thai - keep in mind - YOU'RE ASKING KARATEKA I train in Karate and believe Muay Thai is better as a ring sport/general fighting. Though, I further believe Karate is better for self defense if taught in a quality dojo. I did Muay Thai 3 months prior to Karate - I didn't like it (stylistically) and preferred the variety of kicks found in Karate. I'm not talking about high-risk arial kicks and things like that. I'm talking about side kick/spinning back kick, etc. Also, I rather keep my whits and not get consistently hit in the head unless necessary, thank you!

Actually i would say that I was saying that it depends on what your after

 

[ShotokanBB'n'MB]

actually flashy things tend to work easier on kickboxers and mt guys in my experience. tkd's somewhat used to countering most of them, but not some things like a spinning hammerfist, or setting up flashy kicks with pushing(they dont allow pushing in tkd). kickboxers sometimes just freeze or continually move backwards when you try a spinning kick on them and are easy to hit or continuously chase around.

If you go on youtube you can find countless vids of tkd fighters geting in the ring with kickboxers and muay thai fighters and kyokushin guys

 

[SyuYuKai]

What is a TMA?

You know, a while back I took Kenpo Karate for about a month and then quit because I couldnt afford the high price. It seemed pretty ligit. An instructor at the class worked at my work, so I got some info from him. He said it would take a minimum of 8 years to get a black belt.

Anyway... The instructor of the school told us all that he favored Kenpo because it was a very effect Art. He said it was better than MT and Kickboxing for self defense. I guess he was trained directly under Ed Parker.

So why all the dislike for Karate? From the little that I saw and went through, ANY of those Karate guy could kick my ass in a heartbeat. So why is it so ineffective?

Many people believe that because Karate is largely ineffective* in MMA therefore it is ineffective in the streets. This couldn't be further from the truth. I've never had to defend myself in the streets, and touch wood i never will, but a friend of mine who works the door at a night club has been attacked with bottles, ashtrays and stools and has managed to successfully defend himself with little to no damage.

Another misconception is that if a Karateka was to get involved in a fight the first thing they would do is break out in to a kata . Where as personally the first thing I would do is a palm strike.


(* = with the exception of Machida :icon_chee)

 

[devante]

Many people believe that because Karate is largely ineffective* in MMA therefore it is ineffective in the streets. This couldn't be further from the truth. I've never had to defend myself in the streets, and touch wood i never will, but a friend of mine who works the door at a night club has been attacked with bottles, ashtrays and stools and has managed to successfully defend himself with little to no damage.

Another misconception is that if a Karateka was to get involved in a fight the first thing they would do is break out in to a kata . Where as personally the first thing I would do is a palm strike.


(* = with the exception of Machida :icon_chee)

i have seen karate work in self def situations, an have sparred w/karateka in mma type sparring and they have held their own w/me and i have seen them do so against wrestlers (hs/college/juco), judoka, boxers, muay thai guys and bjj guys; its just a matter of adjusting the tech to account for the spacing, angles, and openings provided by the other stylist. If you train realistically and spar accordingly, you can and will be able to eff use the tech u have just by learning the timing, spacing and tech that are necessary to get off offensively or counter

i respect all tma's they all can be effective when trained realistically; if u only limit urself to working w/guys who do what u do, of course u can't def or intelligently attack or counter other tech ur not familiar w/them. So u don't know how to apply what u know or use it so ur not wiiiide open; an that goes for other arts too, its just that those arts have alot more free sparring and contact so the adjustments arent as drastic and the artist are able to learn quicker.

 

[devante]

i witness a karate guy ko a silver gloves amateur boxer in high school; the karateka hit him w/a kick to the body and an elbow strike and koed him.


my friends sister about 5'6 124; koed a guy who tried to mug her, an he had a fractured skull from the encounter.

an a kenpo guy i trained w/i seen him handle guys in the street and on the mat, on 3-4 occassions.

an of course my dad who did tkd/judo, so i have a healthy respect for the abilities and skills of tma guys; if they train hard, then they will be tough

 

[quikkick]

train in karate, boxing, or tkd. then spar in an mma or mt gym.

Get the technique and fundamentals from those arts and apply them in a worthwile environment. That's the best way to go.

 

[devante]

train in karate, boxing, or tkd. then spar in an mma or mt gym.

Get the technique and fundamentals from those arts and apply them in a worthwile environment. That's the best way to go.

great post/excellent point-best post in here and not just cus i agreed and made a similar point

 

[baatar]

i've seen a drunk guy with no tma experience cave in another guys head with a rock. doesn't mean his approach to fighting is to be recommended.

 

[jlagman]

Many people believe that because Karate is largely ineffective* in MMA therefore it is ineffective in the streets. This couldn't be further from the truth. I've never had to defend myself in the streets, and touch wood i never will, but a friend of mine who works the door at a night club has been attacked with bottles, ashtrays and stools and has managed to successfully defend himself with little to no damage.

Another misconception is that if a Karateka was to get involved in a fight the first thing they would do is break out in to a kata . Where as personally the first thing I would do is a palm strike.


(* = with the exception of Machida :icon_chee)

I'd like to hear theories on why Japanese/Okinawan/Korean/Chinese TMA's are "much better" than Muay Thai/Kickboxing/Boxing, for self defense, on the street. From what I remember, I don't see chambered punches, choreographed eye-gouges and groin-kicks against "character actors", in rehearsed conditions; being that much more effective than in-ring, practiced techniques from the "effective" arts.

 

[mvisit1]

train in karate, boxing, or tkd. then spar in an mma or mt gym.

Get the technique and fundamentals from those arts and apply them in a worthwile environment. That's the best way to go.

I agree with Devante, BEST POST IN THE WHOLE DAMN THREAD.

 

[DoomsdayFAN**]

So, Karate + MT for standing. Then BJJ + Wrestling for Ground. That would be killer!

 

[SyuYuKai]

I'd like to hear theories on why Japanese/Okinawan/Korean/Chinese TMA's are "much better" than Muay Thai/Kickboxing/Boxing, for self defense, on the street. From what I remember, I don't see chambered punches, choreographed eye-gouges and groin-kicks against "character actors", in rehearsed conditions; being that much more effective than in-ring, practiced techniques from the "effective" arts.

Are you addressing this to me? I don't know why because nowhere in my post did I say that one style was "much better" than another.

What I was saying is the TMAs such as Karate aren't as useless as people on here make out. Granted it may not be effective as BJJ or Muay Thai but it doesn't mean that a Karateka wouldn't be able to successfully defend themselves should the need arise.

 

[mschatz]

I'm going to go ahead and close this since this is turning into pissing contest, and I believe the original questions have already been answered.