Can Muscle mass have a negative effect on cardio?

[Morganation]

I think it all you do is weight training and neglect the cardio of course your going to suffer.I dont care though,all I want is to get stronger anyway.

 

[Mumrik]

Which big guys with great cardio come to mind?

A good deal of the better LHWs in MMA (most are 220+ in the cage) and a few HWs - Vel

 

[miaou]

WTF? Why is this even a discussion? And how come people give answers like "not if you don't neglect your cardio training"?

All things being equal, more muscle mass means worse cardio. Sure, a skinny geek who trains zero hours per month will have worse cardio than an athlete twice his size who does cardio training regularly. But that doesn't negate the fact that the more muscle you carry the lower the level of cardiovascular endurance you can possibly achieve.

 

[miaou]

I've found that adding muscles has hurt my anaerobic capacity more than anything (or maybe I just have higher standards now).

Even at my largest (225 @ 18% b/f so not huge by any stretch) I could still run three miles in under 18min.

Now that I'm down to about 198 @ 13% b/f I'm still surprised how quickly I gas in the ring, compared to my ability to do steady-state endurance stuff.

That is because steady state cardio trains your energy systems in very different ways than they are required to work during an MMA fight.

 

[miaou]

Strength high in proportion to mass helps cardio bc you exert less effort to move a object around. My brother has much better cardio but when moving furniture or heavy lifting he is out of breath first...60% exertion is less tiring than 80more than enough to counter act cardio affects of the mass. but this is not the case with mass focused programs bc they build mass at a higher proportion to strength. Thus you have the doubly whammy of increased muscle nass to oxygnate and you have to exert a higher % of your 1rm than the man who built strength first and added mass as an accident. Pretty basic, common sense.

So, when you are moving furniture you are actually relying on your cardiovascular endurance?

Does your furniture weigh <5 pounds and do you jog around with it for 15+ mins?

 

[Aaron Perls]

That is because steady state cardio trains your energy systems in very different ways than they are required to work during an MMA fight.

What do you think the best way to train for MMA fight-type work?

It seems like what you want for an MMA fight is good anaerobic capacity matched with the ability to actively recover quickly.

I wonder if by simply upping my carb intake so my muscle glycogen isn't so depleted that would help.

 

[James Fuller]

So, when you are moving furniture you are actually relying on your cardiovascular endurance?

Does your furniture weigh <5 pounds and do you jog around with it for 15+ mins?

Hmm so muscle takes oxygen but using it at a heavy exertion level while walking up and down stairs dosent? So farmer walks don't leave you breathing heavier? Esp considering its like doing them on a stairmaster, I think your point is fucking illogical. But nice try.

 

[Tosa]

Only the aerobic energy system directly relies primarily on the cardiovascular system. That said it still contributes a small amount to shorter, more intense activities, so the heart rate and respiration increases, even if the amount of time isn't sufficient for it to be trained in any signifcant manner.

 

[miaou]

What do you think the best way to train for MMA fight-type work?

It seems like what you want for an MMA fight is good anaerobic capacity matched with the ability to actively recover quickly.

I wonder if by simply upping my carb intake so my muscle glycogen isn't so depleted that would help.

Yes, having fully repleted carb stores when going into a fight is a good idea. The aerobic capacity will help you recover from short explosive bursts (where you are using the phosphocreatine system) but isn't going to be of much help when it comes to using the lactic system (like you do during grappling or when you are sustaining a high level of activity for a long time). EZA's thread in the stickies is a very good place to start educating yourself on energy systems.

Hmm so muscle takes oxygen but using it at a heavy exertion level while walking up and down stairs dosent? So farmer walks don't leave you breathing heavier? Esp considering its like doing them on a stairmaster, I think your point is fucking illogical. But nice try.

Very scientific argument right there. Can't argue with that.


James, it's nice you've come onboard and you've been so active. Active members are always welcome here. But on the other hand, many of your posts are consistently consisted of equal amounts of information, misinformation and "bro logic". You will be better served by reading more and posting less, particularly when it comes to subjects you obviously aren't educated in.

 

[JerkWeed]

If you watch the Olympics you will notice that at the world elite level, sprinters carry a fair bit of muscle. Elite distance runners and triathletes do not.

 

[cheez whiz]

If you watch the Olympics you will notice that at the world elite level, sprinters carry a fair bit of muscle. Elite distance runners and triathletes do not.

Exactly - that was my first thought. Watch a track meet and check out the progression of body type and development as you go from the shot, discus, and javelin to sprints to middle distance to distance runners. This is a no-brainer and I'm frankly surprised that there's anyone who can't see something so self-evident.

 

[Aaron Perls]

Exactly - that was my first thought. Watch a track meet and check out the progression of body type and development as you go from the shot, discus, and javelin to sprints to middle distance to distance runners. This is a no-brainer and I'm frankly surprised that there's anyone who can't see something so self-evident.

It took them a long time to figure it out.

Look at sprinters from the 70s, 80s and even 90s (by then, they weren't the ones talking gold) and they look the same as the distance runners. Then there was the magical epiphany, and since then sprinters have been weight training.

 

[RusViking]

It took them a long time to figure it out.

Look at sprinters from the 70s, 80s and even 90s (by then, they weren't the ones talking gold) and they look the same as the distance runners. Then there was the magical epiphany, and since then sprinters have been weight training.

I think the magic epiphany you are talking about is called steroids. Kinda like how everyone could suddenly jump like Mike in the mid 90's going forward.

Basketball players also generally look bulkier today, but not slower. It's modern steroids that make it so.

Personally, I think cardio suffers a lot from big muscles, particularly your legs which you use a lot.

 

[Aaron Perls]

I think the magic epiphany you are talking about is called steroids. Kinda like how everyone could suddenly jump like Mike in the mid 90's going forward.

Basketball players also generally look bulkier today, but not slower. It's modern steroids that make it so.

Personally, I think cardio suffers a lot from big muscles, particularly your legs which you use a lot.

Well the 'riods definitely did show up in greater numbers, what really happened is that trainers came to understand that a more holistic view of the body was better, and that systems which didn't seem intuitively connected actually worked together to help each other out.

For example, pumping while sprinting actually helps you spring faster, having a (proportionately) built upper body allows you to pump harder.

 

[James Fuller]

Yes, having fully repleted carb stores when going into a fight is a good idea. The aerobic capacity will help you recover from short explosive bursts (where you are using the phosphocreatine system) but isn't going to be of much help when it comes to using the lactic system (like you do during grappling or when you are sustaining a high level of activity for a long time). EZA's thread in the stickies is a very good place to start educating yourself on energy systems.

James, it's nice you've come onboard and you've been so active. Active members are always welcome here. But on the other hand, many of your posts are consistently consisted of equal amounts of information, misinformation and "bro logic". You will be better served by reading more and posting less, particularly when it comes to subjects you obviously aren't educated in.

"Consistently consisting" is the phrase you were looking for. Secondly, in describing my flaws you just described 99% of the board. Including yourself. The fact is I am 100X more educated than the average poster here due not only to my time spent in college and fighting but also due to the fact that as a fighter most of my friday and sturday nights are spent at home bouncing from here, to starting strength and back and since everything I ever learned about strength training was through rippetoe, starr, EZA, wendler and to be honest...you and Tosa, Carnal and UrbanSavage, Zero Crew etc. so I will stand by the vast majority of my points, when I am wrong, I say so. You are free to call me on stuff you disagree with but to try and talk down to me or to call me "uneducated" because you disagree isnt really a tactic I give two shits about.

Also, when do all you "experts" actually post threads with all this wonderful info you have that we dont? You seem to like to let idiots post bullshit and then refute them as opposed to actually putting forth anything yourself. Thats what we call "being a naysayer"

 

[BigBadMike]

I think the magic epiphany you are talking about is called steroids. Kinda like how everyone could suddenly jump like Mike in the mid 90's going forward.

Basketball players also generally look bulkier today, but not slower. It's modern steroids that make it so.

Personally, I think cardio suffers a lot from big muscles, particularly your legs which you use a lot.

but steroids have been used since the 1950s... Eastern Germans, Soviets and pretty much all countries of the Eastern bloc were notorious steroid users during the 70s and 80s eras. Training methodologies have become more advanced alongside with the growth of professionalism is what has led to athletes being bigger, faster and stronger in modern times. Saying steroids is what has led to athletes being better is frankly a cop out.

As for more muscle mass having negative effects on cardio it definitely can. But it's all a case of costs verse benefits. If you find yourself feeling sluggish, slower, less endurance etc. than place more emphasis on your conditioning or cut. If you're lifting weights look at your lb to lb ratio. Generally the stronger you are lb for lb the more powerful you'll be.