Can I incorporate strength routine with bodybuilding?

[CroSpartacus]

I've been on the 5X5 routine for about 2 years, and I am thinking about doing a change in training. I learned a lot about the importance of doing squats and deadlifts, especially on this site. But I really want to pack on some hypertrophy along with my strength. I was wondering if it is possible to do a mix routine incorporating strength training with a bit of bodybuilding.

I have small calves and it might be due to genetics, but I do have chicken legs. Although I squat more than most gym-goers and deadlift more, my legs never develop much. And I hate to say it, but I do care about the way I look.

That being said, would I be able to do a routine that has some bodybuilding concepts, but that also has squats and deadlifts in it?

I don't train in martial arts anymore, so the only physical stuff I do is training in the gym. I don't know if doing a strength/body building routine would be over-training, but I am just really bored with doing the same routine that I want to try something different for a while.

 

[Envy]

Have you been incorporating the 10x10 German volume training in between cycles of 5x5? Because those are specifically for hypertrophy. Also, getting enough calories? Rip talked about guys putting on 60 pounds in a year HERE, but they're eating 4000-6000 clean-ish calories a day.

 

[ExtremeStandard]

Of course you can mix it in. A lot of bodybuilders do their specific programs for hypertrophy, but when they do a specific muscle group like the back they do dead lifts, bent over rows, and t bar rows, same for legs, back squats, front squats then isolation work. Compound lifts are still done in most bodybuilding programs, it's just not the focus, isolation is more important. Just look at some popular bodybuilders routines and you'll see. This is why bodybuilders are quite strong, I mean not near as strong as Olympic weightlifters, strong man competitors, and power lifters. They are strong though.

 

[FiveFeezy]

The Hepburn and Wendler programs both have optional drop sets to pack on some mass. I wouldn't do them with 3x5 or 5x5 routines as they will give you some decent mass, as is.

I don't know what to tell you about the skinny calves - I have some sticks myself. If any women ask, I point out that any stability lost by skinny calves is more than compensated for by my tripod stance. :icon_chee

 

[BrassBalls]

You might find this routine interesting.

Layne Norton's Power/Hypertrophy Routine - Starting Strength Wiki

 

[Tosa]

Compound lifts are still done in most bodybuilding programs, it's just not the focus, isolation is more important.

Compound lifts still are the focus. Just look at some of the great bodybuilders through history. Steeve Reeves used plenty of compound lifts. And apparently could deadlift 400lbs gripping the bar by the plates (althoug perhaps thats myth). Arnold called the squat, deadlift, bench press, overhead press, row and curl the big six (or some thing along those lines). Ronnie Coleman has squatted and deadlifted 800.

Just look at some popular bodybuilders routines and you'll see. .

And many if not all of those routines are ghost written BS.



To reply specifically to TS: If you haven't gained much size doing a 5x5 routine for 2 years, you probably need to eat more. Second, a good hypertrophy specific routine will still involve squats and deadlifts, and probably lots of them. GVT was alread mentioned. There's also the BBB version of 5/3/1. Although neither is particularly exciting.

In other words, do more volume with the main lifts, and eat more. And grow. Do that for several months.

 

[miaou]

I've been on the 5X5 routine for about 2 years, and I am thinking about doing a change in training. I learned a lot about the importance of doing squats and deadlifts, especially on this site. But I really want to pack on some hypertrophy along with my strength. I was wondering if it is possible to do a mix routine incorporating strength training with a bit of bodybuilding.

I have small calves and it might be due to genetics, but I do have chicken legs. Although I squat more than most gym-goers and deadlift more, my legs never develop much. And I hate to say it, but I do care about the way I look.

That being said, would I be able to do a routine that has some bodybuilding concepts, but that also has squats and deadlifts in it?

I don't train in martial arts anymore, so the only physical stuff I do is training in the gym. I don't know if doing a strength/body building routine would be over-training, but I am just really bored with doing the same routine that I want to try something different for a while.

I think you are misguided/ignorant when you say "bodybuidling concepts, but also squats and deadlifts". You are not talking about bodybuilding concepts, you are probably talking about "curl-monkey concepts". Here is a sample for a beginner bodybuilding routine:

A Simple beginner's Routine
You will do 3 work outs per week on non consecutive days. The first work out is your heavy work out. The second work out is your medium work out, use 10% less weight for your work sets. The final work out for the week is your lite work out, use 20% less weight.

Do a lite warm up with 1/4 of your work sets weight. Do a medium warm up with 1/2 of your work sets weight. Do 2 work sets with the same weight. Choose a starting weight and start light.

These are the seven exercises you will be starting with.

Squats
Bench Presses
Bent-Over Rows
Overhead Barbell Presses
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Barbell Curls
Calf Raises

You will be running this program on a five week cycle as follows:
The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10% and

repeat the cycle. If you didn't get all of the reps on the fifth week then repeat the cycle with the same weight. You shouldn't need more than one minute rest between the warm up sets and you shouldn't need more than one minute thirty seconds between the work sets.
Do some cardio and abs work on non weight training days.

The only differences from common strength training programs to speak of is different rep ranges and break-between-sets times, substituting SLDL's for DL's, adding calf raises and doing all the exercises in all training sessions (and doing less worksets on each because of that).


I still would advocate staying on a strength routine and eating more. You could still do extra higher-rep assistance, but 5x5 offers plenty of volume to begin with. If you're interested specifically in calf hypertrophy, add some calf assistance.

 

[Tosa]

The only differences from common strength training programs to speak of is going for 8-12 reps, substituting SLDL's for DL's, adding calf raises and doing all the exercises in all training sessions (and doing less worksets on each because of that).

That and the rest times between sets are between 1 and 1.5 minutes.

 

[miaou]

That and the rest times between sets are between 1 and 1.5 minutes.

Heheh. Edited before your post.

You're fast though.

 

[VeryMuch]

Have you been incorporating the 10x10 German volume training in between cycles of 5x5? Because those are specifically for hypertrophy. Also, getting enough calories? Rip talked about guys putting on 60 pounds in a year HERE, but they're eating 4000-6000 clean-ish calories a day.

60 lbs of muscle or even mostly muscle in a year = steroids. Even with steroids this would not be easy. If you're talking about getting fat, never mind...

 

[Mumrik]

I have small calves and it might be due to genetics, but I do have chicken legs. Although I squat more than most gym-goers and deadlift more, my legs never develop much.

Not much reason DLs and squats should do squat for your calves. How about continuing on your way (with a program that leads to lots of hypertrophy for most people) and start skipping for conditioning? That will work those calves of yours... Why change program if only one part of your body is making you unhappy?


BTW, bodybuilding is still a forbidden topic in this forum (as per the stickies at the top of the forum).

 

[FyouKantCme]

instead of reading internet forums, maybe try and check out how your local college football team trains and eats. it'll open your eyes.

 

[cheez whiz]

Although I squat more than most gym-goers and deadlift more, my legs never develop much. And I hate to say it, but I do care about the way I look.

That being said, would I be able to do a routine that has some bodybuilding concepts, but that also has squats and deadlifts in it?

Squatting "more than most gym-goers" just means you do some squats. At my gym, the squat rack would have cobwebs on it if it weren't for me and a very few other people. The cure for your "chicken legs" is to start really emphasizing the squats, not just doing some here and there.

It's been said, but bodybuilders do squats. That's one of the reasons they get big. Another is that they eat a lot.

 

[CroSpartacus]

I think I need to rephrase my question a bit because I don't think I provided enough info.

I am not skinny. I put on good mass doing the 5X5 routines (Starr, madcow, Texas) I did definitely gain from the 5X5. I am 230lbs and 6'3. The only thing I am not happy about are my legs.

However, I am always stuck on a certain squat and deadlift number for 5X5, I've been deloading and going back and forth, modifying 5X5 routines (madcow to texas etc) I would occasionally make progress then stall again.

I was making good 5X5 progress for quite a while, but I am stuck. My other problem is that I feel like I am too inactive. I am studying all day and my job is not physically demanding. So the only exercise I do is when I'm weight lifting. I feel like I'm getting fat, but in order to progress the weight numbers I need to eat more.

I was wondering if increasing the volume of my routine and incorporating some bodybuilding (by bodybuilding I mean some high rep schemes and some exercises not included in the 5X5 like incline bench, tri's, calf raises, leg press) would I be able to shock my muscles and make some type of progression?

 

[Endo]

Of course you can mix it in. A lot of bodybuilders do their specific programs for hypertrophy, but when they do a specific muscle group like the back they do dead lifts, bent over rows, and t bar rows, same for legs, back squats, front squats then isolation work. Compound lifts are still done in most bodybuilding programs, it's just not the focus, isolation is more important.

I disagree.

Even for hypertrophy, your main heart of your program should be compound lifts with some isolated accessory lifts. The only thing that should really change is your rep/set scheme. Other then that, you should still be lifting heavy and utilizing compound movements.

Compounds may not be the focus in a lot of bodybuilding programs, but then again, a lot of bodybuilding programs are completely retarded. Generally they call for attacking a isolated muscle with 5 different exercises and an outrageous amount of volume. So...

 

[ssdd]

Im am seeing nice hypertrophy in the legs specifically just adding in 3x10(ea leg) walking lunges after squats and 3x10(ea leg) barbell step ups after deadlift. More hypertrophy then a couple months on SS. It doesn't sound like much extra but they are killer. You might want to throw in some extra glute work too like glute-ham raises or reverse hyperextensions, RDL etc. Do some conditioning a few days a week and maybe some LSD cardio once a week to prevent the feeling that you're getting fat

edit: if you're squatting/dl'ing 3 days a week I wouldn't add that stuff on because you wont be able to recover, but if you're squatting/dl'ing 2 days a week, do add it on. Maybe try something like WS4SB, or that is like mon: lower body(DL+accessory), tues:upper body, thurs:lower body(squat+accessory), fri: upper body

 

[Tosa]

However, I am always stuck on a certain squat and deadlift number for 5X5, I've been deloading and going back and forth, modifying 5X5 routines (madcow to texas etc) I would occasionally make progress then stall again.

I was making good 5X5 progress for quite a while, but I am stuck. My other problem is that I feel like I am too inactive. I am studying all day and my job is not physically demanding. So the only exercise I do is when I'm weight lifting. I feel like I'm getting fat, but in order to progress the weight numbers I need to eat more.

If you're not adding weight to your squat and deadlift sets you're not going to be getting bigger, so that's the problem. First, have your technique checked, if it's not good, it'll limit how much weight you can do.

Second, it may be time for a different routine, maybe one periodized over the course of a month, rather than week to week. So maybe something like 5/3/1 or Sheiko.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I've been on the 5X5 routine for about 2 years, and I am thinking about doing a change in training. I learned a lot about the importance of doing squats and deadlifts, especially on this site. But I really want to pack on some hypertrophy along with my strength. I was wondering if it is possible to do a mix routine incorporating strength training with a bit of bodybuilding.

I have small calves and it might be due to genetics, but I do have chicken legs. Although I squat more than most gym-goers and deadlift more, my legs never develop much. And I hate to say it, but I do care about the way I look.

That being said, would I be able to do a routine that has some bodybuilding concepts, but that also has squats and deadlifts in it?

I don't train in martial arts anymore, so the only physical stuff I do is training in the gym. I don't know if doing a strength/body building routine would be over-training, but I am just really bored with doing the same routine that I want to try something different for a while.

"Train like a Bodybuilder. Whenever I say that, people cringe and run for cover. But what do Bodybuilders train for? Not strength or size but balance. So if you train your pecs, train your back as well. If you train strength make sure you train your conditioning too. And if you train explosive movements, better spend time working on your flexibility."
- Jim Wendler.

Strength and hypertrophy are not mutually exclusive. It is entirely possible to have your cake and eat it. Stan Efferding and Ronnie"Light Weights!"Coleman have proved this at the highest level.

 

[Endo]

Using people who are riddled with holes from steriod use, is never a good representation of the general population or all natural lifters.

Although a natural bodybuilder will need to be strong as fuck to reach their genetic potential or at least make some serious progress, and a powerlifter will eventually need hypertrophy to continue progression.

 

[James Fuller]

60 lbs of muscle or even mostly muscle in a year = steroids. Even with steroids this would not be easy. If you're talking about getting fat, never mind...

This has ALREADY been hashed to death. I didnt say anything to envy at the time but if he had linked to my posting of that article in this thread you could have seen the discussion, plus a pretty good discussion of norse gods lol

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/most-lifters-still-beginners-rippetoe-article-1374979/