International Can china beat the US?

terrapin said:
One of the articles that I read talked about this ability of China to build ships and planes and that their ability to mass produce munitions is so far beyond ours that we could never last in a long war with them.

There was some fear mongering in this article, but at the same time I found myself thinking where does all our money go if we can't build ships fast enough to replace them in a war with China?

The United States military can't account for 60% of its budget and I think that's a national security issue and I wonder why more people aren't extremely pissed off about it and forcing people to explain where the money actually goes in a time when we can't keep up with China in production of warships and airplanes.

The idea that we are asleep and resting on our laurels and prideful enough that we don't realize that we could be falling behind in a serious way, spooks me a bit
Click to expand...

The US has a profit driven defence industry, all that money goes to Lockmart & Raytheon's shareholders & lobbyists. The US military industrial complex exists to make money, not to produce effective weapons systems. This is how you get dogshit like the F-35 which breaks down all the time, mighty convenient for Lockmart since the maintenance & upgrade contracts are worth a significant chunk of the plane's cost. There's no incentive or reason to keep costs down or produce weapons that work, there's no profit if you go down that road. The profit comes from selling overpriced shit that breaks down half the time and requires expensive upgrade work to keep it running.

China on the other hand has a State owned defence industry, the government owns all the defence industry manufacturers so they can control costs and tell them what kind of weapons systems they want. If they need to build new factories or research facilities they can just throw some money at it and order the slaves to make it happen or go to the gulags. It's a purpose driven system as opposed to a profit driven one.
 
China will be able to manufacture munitions faster than they can use them

We won WW2 only because of our manufacturing industry which we no longer have
 
aerius said:
The US has a profit driven defence industry, all that money goes to Lockmart & Raytheon's shareholders & lobbyists. The US military industrial complex exists to make money, not to produce effective weapons systems. This is how you get dogshit like the F-35 which breaks down all the time, mighty convenient for Lockmart since the maintenance & upgrade contracts are worth a significant chunk of the plane's cost. There's no incentive or reason to keep costs down or produce weapons that work, there's no profit if you go down that road. The profit comes from selling overpriced shit that breaks down half the time and requires expensive upgrade work to keep it running.

China on the other hand has a State owned defence industry, the government owns all the defence industry manufacturers so they can control costs and tell them what kind of weapons systems they want. If they need to build new factories or research facilities they can just throw some money at it and order the slaves to make it happen or go to the gulags. It's a purpose driven system as opposed to a profit driven one.
Click to expand...

Just going based off what you're saying and taking it for granted. It does seem like the United States is completely asleep and setting itself up for the potential of massive failure if anything out of the ordinary should happen.

It seems absurd to me that we spend so much money on our defense and people can say things like you just said about it. It's infuriating even.

Personally I want a super powerful military. I just think that way myself I'm willing to get along with anyone I can. I'll go out of my way to stay out of trouble, but if it comes down to trouble I want to use overwhelming force on a person and I believe in that. We should have by far in a way the best military in the world and then just treat people kindly and do right by people. It really bothers me that we're not doing right by lots of people and letting our military slack off.
 
Fox by the Sea said:
come on, man.
Click to expand...
I'm no expert but that's what I always thought based on their military budget.

Where's that weapons expert dude when you need him.

@GhostZ06 come out of the depths, I said USA couple probably win in a war with the entire world. What do you think about that?
 
terrapin said:
I started wondering if China could beat us in a war presently and so I started doing some digging and research and I found articles... well thought out articles going both directions. some claiming that China is already a serious threat and could easily beat us in war and others saying that they have no chance whatsoever.


I don't really know much about military issues between China and the United States, but I would love to hear from those who do. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

One article said they can already beat us easily and I found myself wondering why would we let that happen? We spend so much more on our military. How could we possibly allow China to outstrip our Navy and Air Force for example.

Can China beat the United States in war and if so, why? And if you think they cannot beat us in a war, could you explain why that is?
Click to expand...
No. In a land war they could field more troops but we wouldn’t even have to engage them via land. The us excluding nukes could stalemate the entire world.
 
Zero chance anybody "beats" the US in a war. The US could glass all of mainland china in 30 minutes, and china doesn't have much of a presence outside of the mainland. Sure the chinese would likely take out a lot of mainland US in return, but the US military is all over the globe.
 
PRC rockets are filled with water instead of fuel because of the corruption.
 
Strictly speaking they won the korean war.

Also im not seeing footage of the USA loading out drone armies and flying 6th gen planes.

Other than that china dont really have the navy to project an army so any fighting would be on their own turf which gives them home advantage.
 
cincymma79 said:
The us excluding nukes could stalemate the entire world.
Click to expand...

Short term yes, the US submarine fleet would have a field day sinking everyone else's ships and blowing up a bunch of stuff with cruise missiles.

Long term, no. There's only so many subs and cruise missiles, you're gonna run out of reloads sooner rather than later since the US doesn't have the industrial capacity to replenish its stockpiles. Also, sanctions. The US imports most of its strategic metals (titanium, cobalt, rare earth elements like niobium, gallium, and neodymium) from China and Russia, that's all gonna be gone. Aluminum will also be a serious problem since the US has something like 1/3 of Canada's aluminum production, you ain't gonna be building much of anything that flies with an aluminum and titanium shortage. Then you have your oil refineries, most all of them are along the coasts where they're within range of hostile missiles, same with the SPR. No gasoline & diesel and nothing moves. The US has all the food & oil it needs but if you can't refine oil then nothing moves, countless millions starve, and you're back to the 19th century.

Military potential and the ability to sustain a long war depends on the industrial & resource base of a nation, not worthless measures like GDP or dollars spent. Look at how much steel, aluminum, and copper a nation produces along with how much energy it consumes in electricity, coal, oil, and natural gas. Then look at how much heavy industry it has, stuff like steel mills, 50,000 ton heavy presses, petrochemical plants & refineries, shipyards, and other giant things you can see from orbit. And finally, the people, what's their education level like, are there lots of quality STEM graduates & technicians, do you have enough welders, and so on & so forth. How much of the above you have along with how it's organized & used is what wins wars, it's not GDP or how much money you spend or whether you have the latest stealth aircraft and 3nm tech for making semiconductors.
 
aerius said:
Finally, time, the longer the war goes the more it tips in favour of China. The US is not built to win a war of attrition, it does not have the industry & manufacturing to replace losses in a timely fashion whereas China can crank out enough replacements for almost everything.
Click to expand...

Yeah, China has 4 times the US population and a MUCH higher tolerance for deaths and casualties.

The US only had 300,000 deaths during WWII and Americans are still traumatized from it. China had about 20 million. And they have a long history of extremely bloody wars and revolts.

In the unthinkable scenario where both countries have to send people to the meat grinder, China outlasts the US without a doubt. No way the American public accepts even 1 million deaths.
 
aerius said:
Short term yes, the US submarine fleet would have a field day sinking everyone else's ships and blowing up a bunch of stuff with cruise missiles.

Long term, no. There's only so many subs and cruise missiles, you're gonna run out of reloads sooner rather than later since the US doesn't have the industrial capacity to replenish its stockpiles. Also, sanctions. The US imports most of its strategic metals (titanium, cobalt, rare earth elements like niobium, gallium, and neodymium) from China and Russia, that's all gonna be gone. Aluminum will also be a serious problem since the US has something like 1/3 of Canada's aluminum production, you ain't gonna be building much of anything that flies with an aluminum and titanium shortage. Then you have your oil refineries, most all of them are along the coasts where they're within range of hostile missiles, same with the SPR. No gasoline & diesel and nothing moves. The US has all the food & oil it needs but if you can't refine oil then nothing moves, countless millions starve, and you're back to the 19th century.

Military potential and the ability to sustain a long war depends on the industrial & resource base of a nation, not worthless measures like GDP or dollars spent. Look at how much steel, aluminum, and copper a nation produces along with how much energy it consumes in electricity, coal, oil, and natural gas. Then look at how much heavy industry it has, stuff like steel mills, 50,000 ton heavy presses, petrochemical plants & refineries, shipyards, and other giant things you can see from orbit. And finally, the people, what's their education level like, are there lots of quality STEM graduates & technicians, do you have enough welders, and so on & so forth. How much of the above you have along with how it's organized & used is what wins wars, it's not GDP or how much money you spend or whether you have the latest stealth aircraft and 3nm tech for making semiconductors.
Click to expand...
Well yes someone should probably make America really good again or something. That would help with all the above. Our navy effectively Makes it impossible to even get over here. So China might be able to march through Russia over to Alaska and down but that’s a tight corridor and they’ll have absolutely wild casualties. Nobody can get anything of value over to us.

Hey total sidebar whom else does Biden pardon in his way out?
 
PBAC said:
Strictly speaking they won the korean war.

Also im not seeing footage of the USA loading out drone armies and flying 6th gen planes.

Other than that china dont really have the navy to project an army so any fighting would be on their own turf which gives them home advantage.
Click to expand...
Being the home team is a disadvantage. Never being the home team is one of the key reasons America has a global military presence and alliances.

Looked at devastated Europe post WW2 and made a conscious decision that they never wanted war on their borders.


If you can bomb the living fuck out of a countries manufacturing hubs it makes it very hard for them to win a war. Which is what would happen.
 
EL CORINTHIAN said:
I'm no expert but that's what I always thought based on their military budget.

Where's that weapons expert dude when you need him.

@GhostZ06 come out of the depths, I said USA couple probably win in a war with the entire world. What do you think about that?
Click to expand...

conventionally yes. If trump keeps fucking up alliances then probably no. Nato VS Us? lol i think theyd have us at a Draw

The chinese? the corruption alone and lack of real world military experience will fuck them
 
GhostZ06 said:
conventionally yes. If trump keeps fucking up alliances then probably no. Nato VS Us? lol i think theyd have us at a Draw

The chinese? the corruption alone and lack of real world military experience will fuck them
Click to expand...
I'm definitely concerned about Trump messing with our alliances with other nations in a time when China is building up their military massively. It just seems like complete stupidity to be throwing our weight around against our allies.
 
The fact there are those in this thread that believe a conflict between China and US would or could ever be a one on one or quick and easy is fucking laughable. The US cannot beat China without help, and China can't beat the US without help. It literally is dependent on the allies and which side they fall on.

The US has a couple centuries of conflict experience to draw on, and you'd have to be a fucking idiot to think an American would ever just roll over or give up. It's not in their nature, and they are as patriotic as they come. America would go to war with Allah himself if the Saudis bought the NFL and shut it down. The Chinese have thousands of years of history to draw upon, they're pretty fucking smart, and they win a numbers game.

That being said, I absolutely believe with help that China can beat the US. And this comes from a Canadian who lives in a city that has nuclear weapons from both countries already aimed at it.

Having said all that... the prospect of living in a post-apocalyptic wasteland and not paying taxes or working ever again doesn't sound all that terrible sometimes. The whole no-internet thing will suck, but whatever, lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Siver!
International China Turns to Australia for Beef, USA Loses $2.5 Billion Now at 'Zero'; Australia Will Receive 'Huge Flow' of Cheaper Electronics, Machinery, etc
2 3
Replies
42
Views
1K
Rational Poster
Rational Poster

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,265,332
Messages
57,333,622
Members
175,647
Latest member
Vicent Czar

Share this page

Back
Top