Can black people become "white?"

[revoltub]

I know the thread title is crazy.

But at times in the US, germans, italians, Irish, polish, etc.,werent always considered white by American standards, with italians even being subiect to jim crow laws.

So whiteness historically is a much more elastic concept than one may think.

Black culture and black influence is,heavily significant in america today. And guys like Obama or scientist NGT are staple representations of america while also being black.

Black influence on the younger white generations is phenomenal compared to every other ethnic group, so in a sense, arent black people becoming white in a sense?

 

[HereticBD]

 

[Trotsky]

Yes, they can. At least to a passing extent. (And, by the way, I think this is a pretty courageous topic).


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But, in short, "black" is hardly tethered to genetic heritage in the first place. Most famous black men in America are just as much, if not more, white than black genetically. Which makes them more palatable (and that's not wrong; it's natural). But it's kind of funny that a 90% white and 10% black guy will just be called a "black guy," even if his personal upbringing is extremely Anglo Saxon and his only relationship with "black" identity is being pushed toward it by fellow white people who won't accept him.

 

[TheLastEmperorReurns]

I'm aware of the history of Germans, Irish, and Pollacks facing some form of discrimination but I'm not sure that they weren't considered white at any point.

It's kind of obvious why Italians wouldn't be considered white since most immigrants from Italy are from Southern Italy where they look like North Africans but otherwise

Also- not sure why you didn't mention Jews.

1/2 a century ago it was common knowledge that Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of Middle Eastern migrants who settled in Europe and yet people accept their white identity as a given.

 

[V-2]

I literally just posted in reference to this (general) topic elsewhere.

I'm aware of the history of Germans, Irish, and Pollacks facing some form of discrimination but I'm not sure that they weren't considered white at any point.

http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/139288519/

 

[Fedorable]

worked for me.

 

[trolololol]

Anyone can be anything they want to be. For instance I'm a white guy transitioning to look like Neal degrasse Tyson

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

But seriously as a Greek some people don't consider me white. Even though in the winter im like casper the ghost and in the summer i look like a terrorist.

 

[TheLastEmperorReurns]

I literally just posted in reference to this (general) topic elsewhere.



http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/139288519/

Hm. Interesting that Franklin noted the difference in complexion between the English and Germans.

I wouldn't have thought that there were differences and even observed that as a whole, Germans are more Nordic-looking than the English because of the pool of pre-Germanic genes in the British Isles.

As far as I'm aware, the comparatively dark "indigenous" people of the British Isles were largely absorbed into what later came to be known as the 'Anglo-Saxon' ethnicity.

 

[Witchhunt]

Another race thread.

 

[the muntjac]

Michael Jackson - Black or White

 

[Gregolian]

Fucking immigrants.... says the son of a first generation Japanese immigrant from my mom's side and 3rd gen on my dad's side.

 

[Gregolian]

Michael Jackson - Black or White

.

 

[Morning Star]

 

[TheLastEmperorReurns]

But seriously as a Greek some people don't consider me white. Even though in the winter im like casper the ghost and in the summer i look like a terrorist.

I think Greeks are considered white today because:

1. They began the intellectual tradition of Europe and are arguably the greatest contributors to it.
2. They were the first to articulate the concept of Europe.
3. There's a decent chunk of Greek people that look Nordic. One of my economics professors in college was a blond-haired, blue-eyed Greek. I've also seen people from Turkey who look like that and even people from Syria and Lebanon.

It does speak to how the concept of "white" can be a little ambiguous though, because Greeks are genetically and historically closer to many nations of the Middle East than to, say, Sweden or Norway... so drawing a circle over Greeks and Swedes and calling them white can seem arbitrary.

There are many other examples like this.

For example, Somali and Ethiopians are regarded as black because they're African and most people from those ethnicities have afro-like hair yet their facial structures, languages, and DNA are closer to Semitic North African people [Caucasoids] than to black Africans in countries like Zimbabwe and Niger.

There are many people who are descendants of "transitionary" peoples- that is the link from where on race transitions to another.

Uzbeks are a racial composite of European, Middle Eastern, and Mongolic Asians yet this is the result of both their admixture and their geographical position where Caucasoids and Mongoloids were thought to have split.

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

 

[Trotsky]

But seriously as a Greek some people don't consider me white. Even though in the winter im like casper the ghost and in the summer i look like a terrorist.

Greek ethnic identity in the States is especially interesting considering that white imperialism would never have arisen without the innovation and strength of the Greeks (which I guess may also depend on your categorization of Persians). In many ways, the Greeks were the birthplace of Western dominance millennia later.

 

[MicroBrew]

I know the thread title is crazy.

But at times in the US, germans, italians, Irish, polish, etc.,werent always considered white by American standards, with italians even being subiect to jim crow laws.

So whiteness historically is a much more elastic concept than one may think.

Black culture and black influence is,heavily significant in america today. And guys like Obama or scientist NGT are staple representations of america while also being black.

Black influence on the younger white generations is phenomenal compared to every other ethnic group, so in a sense, arent black people becoming white in a sense?

Whiteness has been somewhat changing but the change has only ever applied to European and geographically close Caucasoid groups.

Germans, Irish, Jews, Italians were never seen in the same light as Native Americans, Blacks and East Asians. Yes their 'whiteness' wasn't always as robust as Anglo-Saxon Whiteness but it was just political and nationally rooted disagreements, not racial.

So, no Black Americans will never be considered White, and frankly I very much doubt they would want to be seen as White anyways. What I noticed about America is that mixed Black people in the US really don't try to pass themselves off as White or attempt to curry favor with Whites by acting White. Whereas mixed people from Latin America , the MiddleEast and some Eurassian/Asian groups will try to be seen as kinda White or align themselves with whatever group is dominant in their area .

 

[Trotsky]

I think Greeks are considered white today

Broadly, internationally, yes.

Not so much when the lens begins to focus toward current white nationalism (or whatever you want to call what is happening). In modern white identity, Italians are the outermost boundary, and they only secured their spot within the past few decades. Spaniards and Persians are othered. Greeks are between Italians the the others.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

I think we're all thinking about this way too much.