Can anyone tell me who might be the best grappler in the world ?

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

Roger, Xande, Marcelo and Braulio...i personally think Vinny Magalhaes is better than Assis.

Im one of Vinny's biggest supporters. I love to watch that guy roll.

But Joao is on a fuckin roll. Id like to see both in 2011 ADCC. Hopefully Vinny will be 100% by then.

 

[Riggeee]

NOGI: IMO Ricardo Arona is the All Time Greatest
but in Present Day,
NOGI:Braulio Estima, Marcelo Garcia, Roger
GI AT:Roger, Xande, Saulo Ribeiro
GI PD:Roger, Xande, Rubens

I dont know a lot about wrestling but i do know that it is a possibility that Karelin could pick up Roger with one hand, and Xande with the other and slam them over n over again till they are dust in NOGI...most likley not

 

[Ryo]

You know I've always wondered.

The way Karelin just picked 300 pounds guys up and manhandled them, it does make me wonder how much he could squat and deadlift.

Are there any official number on this? Him being Russian I know he atleast squatted in his day. :icon_lol:

 

[Rod1]

Thank you. I swear Rod isn't even reading my posts he just grabs a few key words and then goes off on tangents.

Where specifically?

I give up. I have stated quite clearly that I think Karelin walks in with a slight edge. I never tried to argue that the BJJers would win hands down,

I already said that BJJ wins in a 1v1 submission only. on soft mats, i simply pointed out that it doesn't makes the best BJJ guy in the world the best grappler.

I argued that outright dismissing BJJ was foolish inherently foolish. I have the utmost respect for all kinds of grappling, and I hope that was portrayed in my posts. I was merely sticking up for BJJ not hurling mud at Wrestling/Judo.

Im just pointing out that the sport of BJJ is young and therefore its competition its still shallow, sure Roger is a beast now, but in 30-40 years Roger wouldn't even be at top 10.

Grappling is a match up of technical proficiency, style clash, mental acuity and athleticism. Since we're discussing world champions in their respective arts we can presume to standardize (essentially) for all of the variables except style clash, and debating there is purely speculative and subjective. I was entertained for a while but the debate has run its course for me.

Exactly its only speculative and subjective therefore what someone does at his style + how hard to is to be at the top of his style should account for how good someone is.

Karelin staying on top, never giving a point for over 10 years at the olympic and world level, on a sport that has been olympic for almost a century, its outright ridiculous.

Im a judo guy first a BJJ guy second, i can easily say that a judoka has the standup proficiency and the groundwork knowledge to work a submission on Karelin, but i don't say that, because no judoka has ever come close to the level of accomplishments that Karelin has.

Yamashita maybe, but Yamashita was god in a time when Judo was not as developed as it is today, i could say Riner, but Riner has lost many times.

 

[Toastytoy]

best grappler on the planet is easy, hands down, no discussion, fuck off, LOL.

Buvaisar Saitiev

agreed!

 

[Jaxx]

course they do... still they'll get their asses choked if they go to the mundials...

It would be far more competitive than if Mundial champs attempted Judo at the Olympics...

 

[SMillard]

Edit: for my own education, can the people who rank Saitiev over Karelin explain their positions please? It seems like Karelin's body of work and win rate is/was better. Saitiev, while having an abundance of gold medals also has a few instances of scrubbing out. As a ley person, I'd rank Karelin over Saitiev, so I'm curious why other people differ.

The average lay person considers FS a more difficult style of wrestling to be successful at and more technique oriented. Two things have people downplay Karelin, first the guy was a monster. He made 300lbs men look like ragdolls, it looks more inspiring to see a little guy overcome a bigger man. Second Karelin was so far ahead of his competition that even in his loss to Gardner his dominance was apparent. Gardner himself stated that the only reason he won was because of a rule change and Karelin made a mistake disengaging. Now this doesn't take away from the fact Gardner was able to fight off Karelin's attack for the rest of the match to take the win, but Gardner was the first to admit Karelin beat lost the match more than Gardner won it. People used to throw matches so they didn't have to go against Karelin so they would have a better chance of getting a bronze medal.

Saitiev has had to fight through matches more, show that determination and drive to take a match. In other words Saitiev has had his moments when his back was against the wall and he fought through it. Karelin was never really put in that come from behind "showing intestinal fortitude". Not to mention the simple fact that Saitiev looks as impressive technique wise as Karelin does but without the obvious strength advantage over opponents.

You know I've always wondered.

The way Karelin just picked 300 pounds guys up and manhandled them, it does make me wonder how much he could squat and deadlift.

Are there any official number on this? Him being Russian I know he atleast squatted in his day. :icon_lol:

There was a thread discussing this over at the S&C, one number was he could zercher deadlift 400. So I'm pretty sure his squat and deadlift numbers are up there at an elite level

 

[Amiro]

who might be the best?

i might be... you might be.

 

[gocubs1815]

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