I am not arguing the complexity makes BJJ better, I'm arguing having more ways to attack and being used to defending more paths of attack is an advantage. GR doesn't even allow single/double leg style attacks, it is very narrow, and yes I am asserting that its narrowness is a disadvantage. I'm not saying it sucks, I'm saying that its singlemindedness would be a hindrance when the opposition has been training without such constraints from day one. Kung Fu vs all striking is a bad argument, lets try Muay Thai versus Boxing. Do you see where the MT fighter's kicks might be advantageous since the Boxer would be unused to dealing with them?
Not necesarily, because modern MT includes boxing style punching, while BJJ does not involve, greco style fighting, in fact it has basically no standup game whatsoever,
you can count with your fingers the time you actually live spar standing up in BJJ, and when it does it quickly goes to the ground and follow from there.
Conversely a BJJer who can sit guard and work off his butt won't have to jump into a stand up battle with the Judoka and Wrestler. We end up with 2 of the baddest men on the planet in a staring contest.
Agreed. That happened in 1888 when Fusenryu defeated Kodokan, newaza experts completely dumbfounded the best jujutsu experts in Japan, by simply laying and waiting. Newaza was not as developed in jujutsu because quite frankly it was useless for the purpose of jujutsu which was unarmed combat for the samurai, if you went to the ground you get stabbed. Most submissions were standing.
Newaza is the "end of all" of no rules sport grappling, but it was completely useless in the context of grappling martial arts.
Yes, certainly, but did you not call for wins to be by submission only?
Do you realize that there were actual deaths in the first Tokyo Police tournament? it involved people getting thrown over and over against on hardwood, there was no modern medicine back then, lot of concussions and subdural hematomas.
The hell, the way they train in Japan, they still kill people in SOFT mats, imagine how was it back then.
108 school judo class deaths but no charges, only silence | The Japan Times Online
...the boy's teacher was furious and stood waiting for him at the gates of his junior high school in Yokohama. The teacher forced the boy into the gym and made him grapple one on one. The former All Japan judo champion choked the boy until he lost consciousness.
When the boy came to, the teacher choked him again until he went limp, and threw him to the floor with such force that he suffered severe internal bleeding in his brain, an injury known as an acute subdural hematoma.
In Japan judo coaches are more fanatical than American wrestling coaches, because there they dont get sued. So much for Kano's vision.
Yea but again the competition has to end somehow, you proposed infinite time win by sub, so barring a KO via slam/throw there will be some ground fighting.
If the floor is hard, eventually fatigue and damage will pile up, how do you think the 1 hour long matches of old ended when there was no newaza? concussion, fatigue, death. Remember this was a country that was still in the feudal age 30 years ago.
NAGA style rules, and before you say anything yes if I grappled a wrestler in wrestling I'd lose by pinfall rather quickly, but then I'm neither doing BJJ nor allowed to leglock him when I find his foot. Also IF we were on hardwoods I'd sit down and force him to either wade into my guard or stare at me.
So? what was your point that you can beat a wrestler under your rules? cool, im pretty sure i can beat a prime Mike Tyson in a judo or BJJ match.
I may have mispoken here. It is a form of grappling, but it's not really proving who is better at grappling it shows who's got take down skills.
ITT takedowns are not grappling.