Elections California bans voter ID

[spamking]

Saying “it’s racist” really misses the multitude of arguments against voter ID.

Every one of those "arguments" goes away if the Voter IDs were free.

 

[emefer]

I don’t recall ever having to pay for an ID. I’m pretty sure you don’t have to pay for a social security card when you’re born, for example. Again, this is going off on a tangent because you have no response to the basic premise.

I have to renew my ID and it costs money.

 

[Wrath of Foamy]

I'm going to fly to California for a week and I'm going to vote Harris.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yes I've read this copy paste before. Why aren't states like California giving out free id's then? Nobody seems to be able to answer this question.

Because voter fraud is not a serious problem at scale. Why waste time and effort solving a problem that doesn't really exist?

 

[BFoe]

Everyone one of those "arguments" goes away if the Voter IDs were free.

A lot of the arguments would. I also don’t really see any opposition from liberals to a national system in which actual free IDs were supplied to every registered voter.

But I also don’t see Republicans pushing for that, and I don’t really recall a time when a Republican introduced such a bill. Why would they? They don’t want this to be easy for everyone, they want to continue to do things like not accept government-issued employee ID cards (widely held by African Americans, like NC did), or allow firearms permits as ID but not college/university IDs like most every state does until they are sued…

The GOP knows full well there’s no significant fraud, and our elections are secure. These laws are all about making it more difficult for their opposition to vote.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Wanting registered voters to prove they are who they say they are is looking for problems where none exist? Whether the chance of fraud is 5% or 75% why wouldn't every US citizen want to do everything possible to ensure our single votes are as equal as they can be?

Because you have to balance that out with the fact that people have a right to vote and that the US government shouldn't place undue burdens on said right, therefore the people arguing for voter IDs should have to establish that voter fraud is indeed a problem and I don't feel that they have. What evidence do you have that voter fraud is a significant issue at scale? Are there any elections you think might've been affected by voter fraud? Maybe the 2020 presidential election?

Everyone one of those "arguments" goes away if the Voter IDs were free.

Not really though because sometimes the laws change other matters in regards to voting. The NC voter ID law from back in 2013 not only established IDs but got rid of preregistration of high school students, same day registration, and out of precinct voting all which blacks were more likely to use.

Do you think its okay for a state to commission a study on how its voters vote based on race and then specifically restricting the methods used by blacks? That'
s what NC did back in 2013 and they admitted as much.

A lot of the arguments would. I also don’t really see any opposition from liberals to a national system in which actual free IDs were supplied to every registered voter.

But I also don’t see Republicans pushing for that, and I don’t really recall a time when a Republican introduced such a bill. Why would they? They don’t want this to be easy for everyone, they want to continue to do things like not accept government-issued employee ID cards (widely held by African Americans, like NC did), or allow firearms permits as ID but not college/university IDs like most every state does until they are sued…

The GOP knows full well there’s no significant fraud, and our elections are secure. These laws are all about making it more difficult for their opposition to vote.

You shouldn't even grant that because the GOP often uses voter ID laws to make other changes that make it harder for their outgroups(usually blacks) to vote. The voter ID is virtually always a Trojan Horse for voter suppression even setting aside the question of IDs.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

because half the country has less than $500 in the bank?

Then how are the opening bank accounts; cashing checks; buying booze and cigarettes; or signing up for social services help?

 

[BFoe]

You shouldn't even grant that because the GOP often uses voter ID laws to make other changes that make it harder for their outgroups(usually blacks) to vote. The voter ID is virtually always a Trojan Horse for voter suppression even setting aside the question of IDs.

Yes, they do, that’s true.
I’m just saying, if we had some system in place in which every registered voter received a free ID in the mail, that would eliminate a lot of the trouble providing that’s all that was done. But yeah I agree, there’s a whole host of things not ID-related that the GOP continues to do: eliminating drop-boxes or restricting mail-in ballots or whatever.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Next time just write: "I've never read the Constitution."

It gets your point across much faster.

I must hae missed where the right to vote without ID was in it

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Because voter fraud is not a serious problem at scale. Why waste time and effort solving a problem that doesn't really exist?

It's not a waste if people get free IDs which they can later use for various purposes.
i hope you're not suggesting the government is concerned about spending a tiny amount of cash that would be required to give everyone a free piece of plastic.

and i still say all these justifications are bullshit. it's always the same appeal to oozy sentimentality about some group of people so underprivileged you're not even sure they exist.

Anyone bothered to ask those people if they want a free id? i bet they'd say yes.
but nobody did.
because it's NOT about the IDs.

 

[Islam Imamate]

It's not a waste if people get free IDs which they can later use for various purposes.
i hope you're not suggesting the government is concerned about spending a tiny amount of cash that would be required to give everyone a free piece of plastic.

and i still say all these justifications are bullshit. it's always the same appeal to oozy sentimentality about some group of people so underprivileged you're not even sure they exist.

Anyone bothered to ask those people if they want a free id? i bet they'd say yes.
but nobody did.
because it's NOT about the IDs.

None of that addresses the central point that there is no compelling evidence of widespread voter fraud in US elections. If you have some I'd love to see it but until then I remain skeptical of these efforts.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Then how are the opening bank accounts; cashing checks; buying booze and cigarettes; or signing up for social services help?

to be fair, i said "in the bank" as a euphemism for having savings, many probably aren't in banks. that said, ID's expire. you don't need to continually have valid ID to have a bank account

 

[Fox by the Sea]

None of that addresses the central point that there is no compelling evidence of widespread voter fraud in US elections. If you have some I'd love to see it but until then I remain skeptical of these efforts.

saying there's no compelling evidence of voter fraud doesn't address the fact that giving out free IDs is easy, cheap, and useful for the quasi imaginary category of people that are supposedly disenfranchised. having an ID is useful for their lives in many ways, and getting a free one would help them out.

But nobody seems to care about that point.
Because it's NOT about the IDs.

 

[MacGregor]

Yeah Dems have no history of voter fraud, especially regarding a 'judge of elections'...

 

[Lycandroid]

None of that addresses the central point that there is no compelling evidence of widespread voter fraud in US elections. If you have some I'd love to see it but until then I remain skeptical of these efforts.

if you don't require ID how the fuck would evidence of an illegal vote be obtained when the one and only tool to ensure fraud isnt happening isnt enforced or is now banned. Everywhere else requires ID to vote. Why is the US the biggest exception to this ?

 

[andnowweknow]

I'd normally say it's disingenuous and stupid to attempt to solve problems that don't exist, but I'm not MAGA so I guess I just don't get it.

 

[RoastBeast]

They certainly exist, and I’ve posted links before about some of those people’s stories (such as this person here and this person here).

What doesn’t exist is any evidence of widespread voter fraud.

I think it’s naive to act like every homeless person can just walk into a DMV and get ID. These often require corroborating documents that these people no longer have and can be difficult to replace (birth certificate, for example, or proof of residency, or passport/W2/utility bill, etc).

A person would need these to replace a lost license, for example, or to get a one of our amazing free ID cards for voting. (They’d also have to surrender their driving privileges to get a free ID because you can’t have both in my state).

We need to be making it easier for people to exercise their right to vote, not more difficult.

If it's so naive to think that homeless people can get an ID, isn't it also naive to think that homeless people are at the polls voting?

Obviously there's going to be some homeless people out there that vote but to think it's some widespread important issue and a reason why we should forego voting security is pretty weak.

So far I haven't seen a single good argument from your side about this but I've seen everything from people are too poor to move about the world in a 10 mile radius, they can't afford the $25 ID, that homeless people would be inconvenienced by it and that there's one DMV in some podunk town in WI that is only open on the 5th Wednesday of the month. Those are some really weak arguments.

 

[Islam Imamate]

saying there's no compelling evidence of voter fraud doesn't address the fact that giving out free IDs is easy, cheap, and useful for the quasi imaginary category of people that are supposedly disenfranchised. having an ID is useful for their lives in many ways, and getting a free one would help them out.

Pointing out that there is no compelling evidence of voter fraud does address the point because it suggests the system as is works just fine.

But nobody seems to care about that point.
Because it's NOT about the IDs.

You're right about that, its about the GOP trying to make it harder for their outgroups to vote which, again, they have admitted to in the past.

if you don't require ID how the fuck would evidence of an illegal vote be obtained when the one and only tool to ensure fraud isnt happening isnt enforced or is now banned. Everywhere else requires ID to vote. Why is the US the biggest exception to this ?

We have systems in place to verify that voters are who they claim to be and have even prosecuted voter fraud, its just not a widespread problem.

 

[badascan]

If you aren't willing to get Id you aren't someone who should share their opinion on matters of the country. If you're not able to get an ID for any reason then you definitely shouldn't be eligible to vote... Pretty reasonable. How is this even a question?

 

[spamking]

A lot of the arguments would. I also don’t really see any opposition from liberals to a national system in which actual free IDs were supplied to every registered voter.

It still baffles me that we get voter IDs for free in Oklahoma after identity verification during registration and that isn't the case across the US.

But I also don’t see Republicans pushing for that, and I don’t really recall a time when a Republican introduced such a bill. Why would they? They don’t want this to be easy for everyone, they want to continue to do things like not accept government-issued employee ID cards (widely held by African Americans, like NC did), or allow firearms permits as ID but not college/university IDs like most every state does until they are sued…

Even if they did folks would still find something to whine about.

The GOP knows full well there’s no significant fraud, and our elections are secure. These laws are all about making it more difficult for their opposition to vote.

This discussion has been beaten to death on here over the years, but let's be real . . . do you seriously believe the percentage of citizens who vote would go up significantly if everyone was issued a Federal voter ID card that would also work in State and local elections?