Bruce Lee on the Heavy Bag

[armbarforhire]

It's hilarious how much people think they know about him relative to his off-screen skills. The only people that know how good he was were those close to him, or those that fought him. That's it.

That video in particular has always looked to me like he was just hitting the back with no intended form or reason. He's just hitting it. That's it. It was part of other footage where he was practicing in his backyard with other friends and associates.

FWIW...I've read many interviews of those that actually knew him, and they all say he was the real deal. His fights were real fights, not sport fights. Chuck has said he was great. Other sifu's have suggested that Bruce (in his teens) was great but not invincible. Opinions will vary based on their memory and attitude. He'd get into road rage fights on the street. He'd get into fights with other martial artists on set, he'd had a formal fight with Wong Jack Man which in all accounts says he barely won ala a good ol' ground and pound. However contrary to the movie he actually hurt his back doing good-mornings and using too much weight. He didn't get kicked in the back like the movie suggested. That and the fight actually took place at another school...not some secret underground fight club.

But I've said it before...I like Bruce Lee because of his charisma, his obsessive love of martial arts, and his ability to inspire. I don't believe the whole amalgamation of styles was a significant factor in that many people have done the same in times past...just that they didn't have the fame to spread it like he did. Benny the Jet was alive around that time frame, and was an accomplished Karateka and Judoka. He created his own style as well...but lacked Bruce's charisma and far reaching status.

Not really, the side of Wong say it was a draw and the arguments they use actually make sense how Lee basically wanted to reinvent himself after it, they even have testimony that Wong went to work the next day without a bruise.

Linda says it was 3 minutes but that Lee reinvented himself because he didnt won in 15 seconds or something like that :wink:. wich sounds like BS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Jack_Man


The details of the fight vary depending on the account. Individuals known to have witnessed the match included Cadwell, James Lee (an associate of Bruce Lee, no relation) and William Chen, a teacher of T'ai chi ch'uan. According to Bruce, Linda, and James Lee, the fight lasted 3 minutes with a decisive victory for Bruce.

Lee gave a description, without naming Wong explicitly, in an interview with Black Belt.

"I'd gotten into a fight in San Francisco with a Kung-Fu cat, and after a brief encounter the son-of-a-bitch started to run. I chased him and, like a fool, kept punching him behind his head and back. Soon my fists began to swell from hitting his hard head. Right then I realized Wing Chun was not too practical and began to alter my way of fighting." [2]

Cadwell recounted the scene in her book Bruce Lee: The Man Only I Knew:

"The two came out, bowed formally and then began to fight. Wong adopted a classic stance whereas Bruce, who at the time was still using his Wing Chun style, produced a series of straight punches. "Within a minute, Wong's men were trying to stop the fight as Bruce began to warm to his task. James Lee warned them to let the fight continue. A minute later, with Bruce continuing the attack in earnest, Wong began to backpedal as fast as he could. For an instant, indeed, the scrap threatened to degenerate into a farce as Wong actually turned and ran. But Bruce pounced on him like a springing leopard and brought him to the floor where he began pounding him into a state of demoralization. "Is that enough?" shouted Bruce, "That's enough!" pleaded his adversary. Bruce demanded a second reply to his question to make sure that he understood this was the end of the fight."[12]

This is in contrast to Wong and William Chen's account of the fight as they state the fight lasted an unusually long 20

 

[armbarforhire]

http://news.yahoo.com/bruce-lee-fight-without-cameras-changed-everything-230600567.html

A Wong Jack Man Acceptance

Eleven gathered to watch Bruce and Wong Jack Man, a martial arts expert one year his junior, who had accepted the challenge at the prompting of others. These martial arts practitioners, plus Bruce's 19-year-old wife, Linda (Emery) Lee, were eager to witness a private demonstration of skill. Why not? These two guys were young, extremely fit, and in the mood to settle the score on a dare. Bruce was an Oakland-based martial arts instructor and a father-to-be just shy of 24. Wong Jack Man had arrived in 1963 from Hong Kong to teach Northern Shaolin Style from his studio at 880 Pacific Ave., his reputation preceding him. There were no political overtones, no gangs, no love interests, no ultimatums involved, despite later reports claiming otherwise. However, there may very well have been a great deal more bravado on display that evening than was intended or called for.

Jeet Kune Do Is Born

On the morning following the fight, Wong Jack Man reported for work at the Jackson Cafe, as usual. Bruce and his wife had gone home with their older friend and partner, Jimmy Y. Lee, whose house in Oakland was where they were living at the time. Everything had changed for Bruce. The Bruce Lee Foundation indicates that in the immediate aftermath of the fight, Bruce revised his methods and philosophy, creating the personal brand he called Jeet Kune Do, meaning "Way of the Intercepting Fist." Jimmy's son, Greglon Lee, writes that Bruce began "to think more analytically about how to improve his own fighting skills, especially his footwork, his timing, and his ability to bridge the gap with his opponent." Linda concurs, writing in her 1975 book, "The Wong Jack Man fight also caused Bruce to intensify his training methods. From that date, he began to seek out more and more sophisticated and exhaustive training methods."

Immediate Aftermath

Readers may appreciate knowing that an agreement of confidentiality between Bruce Lee and Wong Jack Man transpired at the conclusion of their private fight. However, one month after the fight, there was coverage in The Chinese Pacific Weekly picked up from a Hong Kong newspaper. Lee responded in his own defense three weeks later. On January 7, 1965, another report of the fight appeared, then another. Wong responded in his defense on January 28, 1965, offering a public second match with Bruce to which there was no reply. Bruce and Linda's baby boy arrived four days later. Lee was soon to be further distracted by action adventure on the small screen, then the big screen. Meantime, Wong closed the book for good. For Bruce, great fame, reputation, and success followed shortly.

 

[Harukaze]

Other sifu's have suggested that Bruce (in his teens) was great but not invincible. Opinions will vary based on their memory and attitude. He'd get into road rage fights on the street. He'd get into fights with other martial artists on set, he'd had a formal fight with Wong Jack Man which in all accounts says he barely won ala a good ol' ground and pound. However contrary to the movie he actually hurt his back doing good-mornings and using too much weight.

A lot of info about Bruce Lee doesn't make it out of the Cantonese-speaking world, for better or for worse. Lots of old San Francisco Chinatown sifu's (a number of whom are still alive and teaching today; hell, Wong Jack Man is still alive although he's not running Jing Mo anymore) and lots of Bay Area Chinese Baby Boomers were around for Bruce's antics, but they never bothered to make a big deal about it for one reason or another (anything from language/cultural barriers to a mentality that Bruce Lee's fights were just another part of everyday Chinatown life). Another really good source of info about the reality of Bruce's fighting ability was the Hong Kong actor and martial artist Shek Kin (Mr. Han in "Enter the Dragon"); he did extensive Chinese-language interviews with a number of Hong Kong magazines about his life and career prior to his death, including a lengthy analysis of Bruce's personality and fighting skills.

The general Chinese community consensus of Bruce Lee was that he was lightning fast, his hands lacked power, and only his right step kick was really strong. Not to mention that he was a real pioneer in bringing Chinese martial arts into mainstream Western culture (aside from movies, he also famously accepted non-Chinese students -- what a lot of people don't know is that some SF Chinatown kung fu schools started doing the same soon after, but used the non-Chinese students as living, breathing, paying heavy bags LOL).

 

[thewhiteSRR]

Bruce was awesome but damn his fanboys are deluded.

 

[Jhf884]

I think he sparred with a few champions, including Chuck, and Chuck said Bruce was that good.

I'll take Chuck's word for it

Chuck as in Chuck Norris? B/c Chuck is quite clear that they NEVER sparred, just "worked out" together (i.e. hit the bags together), when asked why said "b/c I was a professional full-time fighter and he was an actor" (paraphrased there).

I've never seen any evidence that Bruce did much sparring, and certainly not realistic hard sparring.

 

[Spoken]

Chuck as in Chuck Norris? B/c Chuck is quite clear that they NEVER sparred, just "worked out" together (i.e. hit the bags together), when asked why said "b/c I was a professional full-time fighter and he was an actor" (paraphrased there).

I've never seen any evidence that Bruce did much sparring, and certainly not realistic hard sparring.

and yet he felt comfortable in saying that his skill in martial arts were in a class of their own.
That said, the evidence isn't anywhere except in the statements made by other martial artists and those close to him. It's impossible to verify, but I find myself buying into the statements made by some of the best MA experts at the time... just with a little bit of skepticism.

 

[SummerStriker]

I always felt like this conversation about Bruce was just an extension of the idea that you can't train for fighting without fighting and that you shouldn't believe in yourself unless you win at a competition.

Training based on sound principals gives non-fighters an edge in a fist fight. Bruce's movies were great and the words in his books are generally correct - they are self evident to anyone who does free style sparring.

You can't tell how good someone is at fighting by watching them hit a heavy bag. For plenty of people who do martial arts, the heavy bag is an after thought. I don't know how much he worked it but I doubt he believed that it was the be all end all. The heavy bag is a great tool but I'm not sure that looking attractive while hitting it means a whole lot more than a couple % points of odds in your favor.

 

[Jhf884]

and yet he felt comfortable in saying that his skill in martial arts were in a class of their own.
That said, the evidence isn't anywhere except in the statements made by other martial artists and those close to him. It's impossible to verify, but I find myself buying into the statements made by some of the best MA experts at the time... just with a little bit of skepticism.

Chuck is a generous guy, and why in the world would he want to turn Bruce Lee's fans against him, when they help pay his bills by watching his movies and shows?

Chuck thought Bruce was good, but if you listen closely, Chuck doesn't think he was on the same level. (Why would he, Chuck was a champ. Bruce was an "martial artist" and an actor). And frankly, you want to talk about open-minded pursuit of the Martial Arts? Chuck Norris fought in real kick-boxing matches (not shadely documented underground Chinatown challenges), and cross-trained in AND BJJ before basically anyone knew what it was.

The biggest part of Bruce's legacy, sadly, is the million shitty "self-defense" schools with a system the instructer invinted by combining the best of 10 different martial arts. "I only kept what works!" Which is great. But they never bother to *actually* find out what works and what doesn't. Bruce was more legit than that. He actually had martial arts experience, he actually had a pretty good philosophy. But he wasn't a fighter. Those shitty self-defense schools (and not MMA) are his real legacy.

 

[Frode Falch]

Also. Chuck Norris is just a point fighter. He never did any full contact fights.

 

[flanellograf]

Also. Chuck Norris is just a point fighter. He never did any full contact fights.

There can be knockouts in point-fighting. Depends on what the rules are.

 

[Cowie]

Why do people STILL try to discredit Bruce and say he's JUST an actor and martial artist, and not potentially a good competitor if he were 1 IF the pros that he hung out with ALL said he was good?

Were they nerdy fans of Bruce too? This is like people saying Global WArming is a hoax when the majority of the scientists on earth say it's happening...

 

[Torak]

Bruce Lee is a legend of this earth. Dont talk bad about him and dont question him. Let him rest in peace.

 

[cajun2099]

well to be fair it depends on what he is doing here. If that is supposed to be his jab cross combos then yikes but it appears he is just wailing away on the bag with alternating vertical fist power punches..

As for the One inch punch yes its trick. Mind you many kung fu practitioners would preform on corners back in china to wow the crowd and get students so things like the one inch punch were just a way to entertain people and shock the gullible.


Bruce was a High school boxing champion for what its worth.

Context is key maybe hes just fucking about hitting a bag knowing his friend is filming it and not worrying that every bit of footage of him or every thing he wrote would be so scrutinized over ? It actually looks like hes doing a albeit sloppy straight blast ( jkd) term

 

[thewhiteSRR]

Why do people STILL try to discredit Bruce and say he's JUST an actor and martial artist, and not potentially a good competitor if he were 1 IF the pros that he hung out with ALL said he was good?

Because it's irrelevant. If's are a waste of time. He didn't prove himself in competition - period.

Bruce Lee is a legend of this earth. Dont talk bad about him and dont question him. Let him rest in peace.

Not sure if you're being patronizing, but no one should be immune to criticism. Bruce himself would probably tell you that.

 

[Frode Falch]

Bruce Lee was 100 times more humble then his nerdy fans are today.

If he was alive today, he would not claim that he could beat any man on this planet.

 

[Harukaze]

Bruce Lee was 100 times more humble then his nerdy fans are today.

If he was alive today, he would not claim that he could beat any man on this planet.

He wasn't when he was younger -- at least not in the Chinese community. He was arrogant and frankly he could sometimes be a downright jerk in Hong Kong and especially in San Francisco's Chinatown.

But then again, who of us didn't have a big head when we were young, right?

 

[SAAMAG]

According to Dan Insosanto, he said most of Bruce's street fights were due in part to his "road rage". He'd be yelling and honking at people, and actually stop the car and have a fight literally in the street. I'll try and find the interview where he talked about it.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Yeah i remember reading another one like that . I think it may have been with danny or someone close to bruce in the JKD group. Bruce and one of this students were doing some light sparring and he said one of the students got in a lucky shot on bruce and Lee went bat shity crazy and tackled the guy and started pounding on him and they all had to jump in and yank bruce off.:icon_lol:

Lee may have been a lot of things humble was not one of him.

 

[Pro Killer]

WTF way to bring this back!!

 

[TriangleMan]

So much useless hate in here for one of the greatest movie stars and martial artists.

Not like any of us could successfully beat up Bruce Lee, I would imagine. I'd show respect.